Question: If you had been born into a Jewish or Christian family and culture, the odds are that you would now be a follower of one of those religions. Why do you think that an all knowing God went to the trouble of creating those religions, if he knew they would become corrupted and need to be replaced ? How come 'He' was able to perfectly protect the contents of the Holy Quran, but not able to protect the contents of the Hebrew Scriptures, or the New Testament ?I'm still trying to get my head around the links you gave me, I will try to respond soonish.... honest !!!!
Answer: Probably so, but who knows. All I can say is that I have read the Quran, Bible and Torah, and the Quran seems to stand the test of truth and accuracy.
It is not that God could not protect the earlier scriptures, rather he chose not to. Just like he left choice of religion to our free-will, he allowed us to do what we wanted with the scriptures as well. Do keep in mind that God had been sending prophets and revealing scriptures ever since man has been accountable. But since the Quran was meant to be the last and final scripture, and no prophet is to come now, we humans needed something from God to guide us. For this purpose, God guaranteed that this book will not suffer change!
Also, God did not create so many religions. His basic message has always been the same. Humans have made changes. A reading of the text of most world religions readily shows that. Where people have not been able to make enough changes in the original text, they have cleverly written/attributed books to other ‘holy’ men and say that now it is okay to follow this instead of what’s written in the original text.
Thursday, June 11, 2009
Reading Scientific and Mathematical proofs into Holy Books?
Question: I have a deep concern with the practice of reading scientific and mathematical proofs into holy books that were written by persons living in a pre scientific age. Recently in my country it became popular for some biblical scholars to claim that the Old Testament contained secret number codes, and that these number codes could be used to predict future events. Some argued that only God could have inserted these number codes into the old testament, and that this was clearly proof that the old testament had God as its source. Computer modelling has since shown that the appearance of certain numbers within the old testament is purely random, and that it is wrong to read things into the ancient texts that were never intended by the original writers.
I also have major fears of persons insisting that all of THEIR holy texts should be taken literally. I know of some Orthodox Jews who believe that they have the correct understanding of their holy books, and that only they are being faithful to the teachings and commands of God. My Roman Catholic friends believe that Jesus was the son of God, and that only they have a full and accurate understanding of the teachings and commands of God. My Muslim friends believe that only they have the true teachings and commands from God. Now to my mind, something is clearly not right here, which is why I asked my original question about trusting any of the holy scriptures. I have no doubt about the existence of God, anyone who studies the wonders of science would be hard pressed to say otherwise. But I do still see the big religions as being man made and largely male dominated, yet I do not see or sense that God is male. Clearly I have much more to explore and learn !!!!
Answer: We are told by Allah in the Quran that he has sent numerous prophets and revealed various books to mankind, and that as Muslims, we have to believe in them, and respect them.
Having said that, we are also informed that people have over the ages changed the message to suit their interests, so that now they are no longer in their pure form.
We are also told that Allah Himself takes the responsibility of protecting the Quran from changes as it is the final revelation till the end of time, and no other prophet will hence be sent for the guidance of humanity. The Quran is a guidance for all humanity, not just Muslims.
Furthermore, the reader of the Quran is constantly challenged to ponder and reflect upon the message and the signs all around. We are urged to study and evaluate critically, and then believe.
The belief that comes from such understanding and evaluation is naturally one of complete faith and submission…….. it just cannot be otherwise.
I understand your concern, but that is the litmus test……… if it was written by ‘persons living in a pre scientific age’ it is bound to have errors intermixed with some truths that their Prophet informed them of and they were able to record.
Whereas if it is a book from God, protected by God, unadulterated by humans, it should definitely contain no errors as the Creator knows exactly what He created and is not limited in knowledge, nor has any need to lie.
We can theorize all we want based on our knowledge, understanding, intellect and heart ( and we should, as it is an important part of trying to understand), but there has to be some way of testing these theories………. one is to put it to the test of science!
I hope you understand what I’m trying to explain……….. the Holy Quran is a book of Guidance and not a text book of science………… yet since it is from God, whatever scientific phenomenon it refers to should be verifiable……… if not, then we would face the same dilemma other ‘people of the book’ face…. that some of it is from God, some portions written by humans, and it would be a constant challenge sifting out the primary from the secondary.
Were you able to go through the links I sent you earlier…tell me what you think of them?
As far as God being a he or she is concerned, God is above and beyond that. God has created in pairs, males and females for reproductive purposes of moral beings, while God is immortal, has always been and will always be, and thus has no need to be either male or female. Referring to God as He/Him is just a traditional/cultural/linguistical/anthropological way of addressing or referring to God.
I was born in a traditional muslim family which practiced Islam as it is practiced in the sub-continent. Obviously a lot of culture, and influence of Hinduism, Sikhism, etc was also there. Luckily, my dad always believed in critical evaluation while being religious at the same time, thus from a very early age, I was encouraged to understand and separate religious ‘do’ from all other doooos, thus helping me understand how simple and true the original message of Islam was as compared to the complicated practices of ‘evolved’ societies. I was also able to draw upon the works of a lot of scholars who have studied the Quran from different angles and helped establish that it is indeed the true unadulterated word of God. Also, studying other religions and faith systems, I have come to understand that all contain some element of truth, but the message has somehow been distorted over time, something that Allah Himself has already informed us about, as mentioned above. Joining this group was part of the same journey….. I needed to interact with actual people of other beliefs and understand how come they also so strongly believe in whatever they believe in. Its been a wonderful journey, enriching me with new ideas, thoughts and ways of looking at things. This is a great group indeed. Hope your journey here is just as rewarding as mine has been.
I also have major fears of persons insisting that all of THEIR holy texts should be taken literally. I know of some Orthodox Jews who believe that they have the correct understanding of their holy books, and that only they are being faithful to the teachings and commands of God. My Roman Catholic friends believe that Jesus was the son of God, and that only they have a full and accurate understanding of the teachings and commands of God. My Muslim friends believe that only they have the true teachings and commands from God. Now to my mind, something is clearly not right here, which is why I asked my original question about trusting any of the holy scriptures. I have no doubt about the existence of God, anyone who studies the wonders of science would be hard pressed to say otherwise. But I do still see the big religions as being man made and largely male dominated, yet I do not see or sense that God is male. Clearly I have much more to explore and learn !!!!
Answer: We are told by Allah in the Quran that he has sent numerous prophets and revealed various books to mankind, and that as Muslims, we have to believe in them, and respect them.
Having said that, we are also informed that people have over the ages changed the message to suit their interests, so that now they are no longer in their pure form.
We are also told that Allah Himself takes the responsibility of protecting the Quran from changes as it is the final revelation till the end of time, and no other prophet will hence be sent for the guidance of humanity. The Quran is a guidance for all humanity, not just Muslims.
Furthermore, the reader of the Quran is constantly challenged to ponder and reflect upon the message and the signs all around. We are urged to study and evaluate critically, and then believe.
The belief that comes from such understanding and evaluation is naturally one of complete faith and submission…….. it just cannot be otherwise.
I understand your concern, but that is the litmus test……… if it was written by ‘persons living in a pre scientific age’ it is bound to have errors intermixed with some truths that their Prophet informed them of and they were able to record.
Whereas if it is a book from God, protected by God, unadulterated by humans, it should definitely contain no errors as the Creator knows exactly what He created and is not limited in knowledge, nor has any need to lie.
We can theorize all we want based on our knowledge, understanding, intellect and heart ( and we should, as it is an important part of trying to understand), but there has to be some way of testing these theories………. one is to put it to the test of science!
I hope you understand what I’m trying to explain……….. the Holy Quran is a book of Guidance and not a text book of science………… yet since it is from God, whatever scientific phenomenon it refers to should be verifiable……… if not, then we would face the same dilemma other ‘people of the book’ face…. that some of it is from God, some portions written by humans, and it would be a constant challenge sifting out the primary from the secondary.
Were you able to go through the links I sent you earlier…tell me what you think of them?
As far as God being a he or she is concerned, God is above and beyond that. God has created in pairs, males and females for reproductive purposes of moral beings, while God is immortal, has always been and will always be, and thus has no need to be either male or female. Referring to God as He/Him is just a traditional/cultural/linguistical/anthropological way of addressing or referring to God.
I was born in a traditional muslim family which practiced Islam as it is practiced in the sub-continent. Obviously a lot of culture, and influence of Hinduism, Sikhism, etc was also there. Luckily, my dad always believed in critical evaluation while being religious at the same time, thus from a very early age, I was encouraged to understand and separate religious ‘do’ from all other doooos, thus helping me understand how simple and true the original message of Islam was as compared to the complicated practices of ‘evolved’ societies. I was also able to draw upon the works of a lot of scholars who have studied the Quran from different angles and helped establish that it is indeed the true unadulterated word of God. Also, studying other religions and faith systems, I have come to understand that all contain some element of truth, but the message has somehow been distorted over time, something that Allah Himself has already informed us about, as mentioned above. Joining this group was part of the same journey….. I needed to interact with actual people of other beliefs and understand how come they also so strongly believe in whatever they believe in. Its been a wonderful journey, enriching me with new ideas, thoughts and ways of looking at things. This is a great group indeed. Hope your journey here is just as rewarding as mine has been.
Tuesday, June 2, 2009
Shariah Law and flogging as a form of punishment
Question: I just want the opinion of all members of the recent implementation of 'Sharia Law' in sawat. Not the forget, the infamous video of flogging a girl.
Answer: We had a brief discussion on ideal Islamic state and shariah law in our Quran class the other day. Our teacher was of the opinion (or so I understood) that there is no such thing as an ideal state, as there always will be something better than an existing state, and thus there can never be a perfect state….. so instead of dreaming of an ‘ideal Islamic state’, we should simply strive, continuously, to improve our current state.As for the Shariah Laws, his opinion was that Allah has provided us with guidance (in the Quran) for only about five things, which as humans we would probably get confused about, and not be able to formulate the correct laws based on our human faculties. The rest, which are known as Islamic Shariah Laws, were formulated much much later, for political reasons.
………………………………………………….
As for flogging, my understanding from the Quran (see below) is that Allah has indeed made it extremely difficult for anybody to accuse anybody else for adultery. To even admit the case in court you need atleast 4 witnesses, how is it possible to get 4 witnesses for such a thing? Then again, if the accusation is found to be false, the accuser is to be flogged with eighty stripes, and never again is his testimony to be accepted throughout his life! And if a person accuses his/her spouse of adultery, he/she is required to take oath 4 times that the accusation is true, and a fifth oath that if he/she is lying, may the wrath of Allah fall upon him/her.
………………………………………………….
As for flogging, my understanding from the Quran (see below) is that Allah has indeed made it extremely difficult for anybody to accuse anybody else for adultery. To even admit the case in court you need atleast 4 witnesses, how is it possible to get 4 witnesses for such a thing? Then again, if the accusation is found to be false, the accuser is to be flogged with eighty stripes, and never again is his testimony to be accepted throughout his life! And if a person accuses his/her spouse of adultery, he/she is required to take oath 4 times that the accusation is true, and a fifth oath that if he/she is lying, may the wrath of Allah fall upon him/her.
Given the above conditions, it is indeed extremely difficult, if not impossible to launch such accusations. Also, I don’t see how except the openly promiscuous would suffer such a fate, and then again, after one or two such punishments, how many would be left in society who would dare do such a thing, especially openly? I think the hudood and zina laws as implemented in Pakistan is simply a mockery of religion, and an additional tool for the oppressors to further their oppression.
Surah Noor ayat 1-10
1 A sura which We have sent down and which We have ordained in it have We sent down Clear Signs, in order that ye may receive admonition.
2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
3 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4 And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5 Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
7 And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
8 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
9 And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.
10 If it were not for Allah.s grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft- Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed).
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=24&translator=2
Surah Noor ayat 1-10
1 A sura which We have sent down and which We have ordained in it have We sent down Clear Signs, in order that ye may receive admonition.
2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
3 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4 And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5 Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
7 And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
8 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
9 And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.
10 If it were not for Allah.s grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft- Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed).
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=24&translator=2
Monday, June 1, 2009
This Life, Resurrection and Retribution
Question: We are knowingly dishonest, morning, noon and night, knowingly and willingly behaving in a less than optimum manner. That behaviour has consequences and it is these consequences that are designed beforehand as safeguards into the Kosmos. They are not decided on a one at a time basis. They are an automated part of the eternal system. No judgment and handing out of customised punishments is involved.
Answer: I had to re-read your post as there are certain sentences that I totally agree with, and those that are quite different to my understanding. For example the above quote…. quite similar to what I’ve been saying when I compare life and predestination to a super computer program. We make choices, and all are coded like if-elseif-else constructs, such that whatever choice we make, it is already known to God, and consequences predestined. How is that different /opposite to the concept of trial? God can, and I believe has, incorporated trial in the software.And how is it punishment? Trial and pre-destination are not punishment. But we have been told that all our choices and intentions are being recorded, and the consequences of which we will receive in after-life. Ofcourse, if one doesn’t believe in after-life, one does not wish to accept this last part……….but if there is no after-life, what is the point or purpose of this life?Also, if there is a majestic Creator who not only created everything but also designed a flawless super program, what is there to stop Him from intervening in His program whenever or however He wishes, both in this world and in the here-after.And since He did create us in the first place, what is there to stop Him from resurrecting us?
Answer: I had to re-read your post as there are certain sentences that I totally agree with, and those that are quite different to my understanding. For example the above quote…. quite similar to what I’ve been saying when I compare life and predestination to a super computer program. We make choices, and all are coded like if-elseif-else constructs, such that whatever choice we make, it is already known to God, and consequences predestined. How is that different /opposite to the concept of trial? God can, and I believe has, incorporated trial in the software.And how is it punishment? Trial and pre-destination are not punishment. But we have been told that all our choices and intentions are being recorded, and the consequences of which we will receive in after-life. Ofcourse, if one doesn’t believe in after-life, one does not wish to accept this last part……….but if there is no after-life, what is the point or purpose of this life?Also, if there is a majestic Creator who not only created everything but also designed a flawless super program, what is there to stop Him from intervening in His program whenever or however He wishes, both in this world and in the here-after.And since He did create us in the first place, what is there to stop Him from resurrecting us?
Can any of the Holy Scriptures be totally trusted?
Question: My next BIG question is:CAN ANY OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES BE TOTALLY TRUSTED ?Working on the ASSUMPTION that all humans are limited in their knowledge and understanding of God, and what they hear, read, or learn is strongly influenced by their culture and pre-existing world views, and perhaps shaped by their inner mental and emotional motives, can ANY of the writings of the various prophets be trusted to be totally accurate, or is it the case that that any sort of literal reading is too be avoided. Apart from the FACT that women often get a bad deal in most of the holy scriptures, I am also concerned that God is so often portrayed as being exclusively Male, and that so many of the holy scriptures paint an all too restricted and conveniently human image of God. IF such a thing as God exists, I hope She is more intelligent and compassionate than the ones portrayed in the world's holy scriptures. My guess is that no one religion has ALL the answers, and as Mark has already said, God remains a "Great Mystery".Just Being Curious & Exploring,
Answer: Yes, the Arabic Quran is a holy scripture that can be totally trusted.
Reason: Mathematically, Scientifically, Morally it stands the test.
Explanation: Allah/God has taken it upon himself to protect it. Any copy of the Holy Quran anywhere in the world contains the same alphabets in the same order. The numbering of the sentences may be different in some copies, but the exact alphabets and words in the exact same sequence are always there. For example, all Chapters (Surahs) begin with Bismillah hir Rahman nir Rahim (In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful): Some mark it as the first sentence while others mark it as the header, and the following sentence is marked as 1. Also, most copies list Surah Fatiha as Chapter 1 while some mark it as an opening prayer. Now, as a science student, you will be able to appreciate the following: if we take Surah Fatiha as the opening prayer, and Surah Baqarah as Chapter 1, then counting till the chapter titled Iron, the count is 56 which is the atomic weight of Iron(Fe). Then again, if you count the bismillah as the first sentence, then the count till the sentence which contains the mention of Iron is number 26, which is the atomic number of Iron.
Another example: Surah Rum or the Roman Empire (30:3 or 29:4, depending on how one counts), it says that ‘fi adna l-ardi’, now we know that Arabic language comprises of root words which lend themselves to an array of meanings, one of which can be: lowest part of the Earth……now you will be surprised to learn that the Romans were defeated by the Persians in the Dead Sea valley, which is indeed the lowest part on the surface of the Earth (land), being approximately 400m below sea level. This verse also goes on to foretell that after this they will soon be victorious…….. and indeed, history is witness to the fact that the Romans later on did win.
Point to Ponder: Prophet Muhammad was not only illiterate, science had not progressed to such a level in the 7th Century AD. Some people respond to this with the argument that he was inspired not by God but by a djinn, and thus such scientific accuracy is there which was unknown to humans at that time. Why would a djinn or any other creature inspire Muhammad with such a wonderful book which seeks to glorify the one and only creator alone? Links: You may do some research for more evidence from the following linkshttp://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm http://19.org/download/19_001.wmv http://www.quran.org/science/origin.htm There are many more sites on the web; for scientists you may look up Maurice Bucaille and Nurbaki to begin with; you might even look up youTube and Google videos.Also, do check out: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5897202495636098966&ei=aaEkSuWDNIe8wgOXm_XSCQ&q=islam+and+science http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjDBlH9Thug
Answer: Yes, the Arabic Quran is a holy scripture that can be totally trusted.
Reason: Mathematically, Scientifically, Morally it stands the test.
Explanation: Allah/God has taken it upon himself to protect it. Any copy of the Holy Quran anywhere in the world contains the same alphabets in the same order. The numbering of the sentences may be different in some copies, but the exact alphabets and words in the exact same sequence are always there. For example, all Chapters (Surahs) begin with Bismillah hir Rahman nir Rahim (In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful): Some mark it as the first sentence while others mark it as the header, and the following sentence is marked as 1. Also, most copies list Surah Fatiha as Chapter 1 while some mark it as an opening prayer. Now, as a science student, you will be able to appreciate the following: if we take Surah Fatiha as the opening prayer, and Surah Baqarah as Chapter 1, then counting till the chapter titled Iron, the count is 56 which is the atomic weight of Iron(Fe). Then again, if you count the bismillah as the first sentence, then the count till the sentence which contains the mention of Iron is number 26, which is the atomic number of Iron.
Another example: Surah Rum or the Roman Empire (30:3 or 29:4, depending on how one counts), it says that ‘fi adna l-ardi’, now we know that Arabic language comprises of root words which lend themselves to an array of meanings, one of which can be: lowest part of the Earth……now you will be surprised to learn that the Romans were defeated by the Persians in the Dead Sea valley, which is indeed the lowest part on the surface of the Earth (land), being approximately 400m below sea level. This verse also goes on to foretell that after this they will soon be victorious…….. and indeed, history is witness to the fact that the Romans later on did win.
Point to Ponder: Prophet Muhammad was not only illiterate, science had not progressed to such a level in the 7th Century AD. Some people respond to this with the argument that he was inspired not by God but by a djinn, and thus such scientific accuracy is there which was unknown to humans at that time. Why would a djinn or any other creature inspire Muhammad with such a wonderful book which seeks to glorify the one and only creator alone? Links: You may do some research for more evidence from the following linkshttp://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm http://19.org/download/19_001.wmv http://www.quran.org/science/origin.htm There are many more sites on the web; for scientists you may look up Maurice Bucaille and Nurbaki to begin with; you might even look up youTube and Google videos.Also, do check out: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5897202495636098966&ei=aaEkSuWDNIe8wgOXm_XSCQ&q=islam+and+science http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjDBlH9Thug
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
