Hell fire for Kufr?

SG responding to a debate to someone's comment on an email list:  ...Allah or God or Krishna or Yayweh is not so narrow minded to ask his followers to kill non believers. I think this hatred against non believers and I remember seeing a verse in Quran about non believers going to hell fire may be just added for political reasons in Saudi Arabia. God is all loving and I don't see any reason on why he will give such kind of punishment to non believers or kufr.

My response: 

In Surah Ahzab, the reason for judgement is given as follows:

[http://quran.com/33/72-73 translator: Pickthall]

Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool. So Allah punisheth hypocritical men and hypocritical women, and idolatrous men and idolatrous women. But Allah pardoneth believing men and believing women, and Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

In Surah Yasin, the warning is reiterated:

[http://quran.com/36/60-63 translator: Pickthall]

Did I not charge you, O ye sons of Adam, that ye worship not the devil - Lo! he is your open foe! - But that ye worship Me? That was the right path. Yet he hath led astray of you a great multitude. Had ye then no sense? This is hell which ye were promised (if ye followed him).

In Surah Araf, we are reminded:

[http://quran.com/7/172-174 translator: Pickthall]

And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware; Or lest ye should say: (It is) only (that) our fathers ascribed partners to Allah of old and we were (their) seed after them. Wilt Thou destroy us on account of that which those who follow falsehood did? Thus we detail the revelations, that haply they may return. 

SG response: This Sura 33/72-73 is almost identical to the commandment Moses have to his followers. This is similar to "Thou shall not worship Idols". I just want to say that this commandment is only applicable to Jews, Christians and Muslims. In one of the ancient Upanishads (revelations of God to great sages) God has given instructions on how he can be worshipped in a physical form made out of a stone, metal or a wood. In the famous temple of puri God is carved in a wooden form. I don't see it nothing as Idol worship here. It is god's instruction in very ancient times to worship him in this wooden form. So this instruction of Surah punishing idolatrous men and women have to be carefully analyzed. In fact this very instruction of Quran is responsible for destruction of so many temples by Aurangzeb in India bringing direct conflict with Hindus in ancient times. Less powerful kings kept quiet and more powerful kings fought against him.  

My response: 

I had quoted Quran verse 33:72 in response to your following comment: "...  I remember seeing a verse in Quran about non believers going to hell fire may be just added for political reasons in Saudi Arabia. God is all loving and I don't see any reason on why he will give such kind of punishment to non believers or kufr." 

Quran 33:72 states that the reason why humans must be judged is because humans undertook a certain responsibility: "Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool." 

Please note that God is going to judge and reward/punish in the Hereafter. These verses are not giving the license to anyone to judge or punish anyone on Earth. They are simply informing the reader that even though humans do not have enough knowledge of the unseen nor memory of what went before being sent on Earth, rest assured that there is no injustice being done. Human chose to bear the Trust and its a consequence of that that humans must be judged and recompensed for their performance in the life on Earth. 

I'm surprised to learn from your email that in the Upanishads it is permissible to worship god in physical form, while, according to the research of Dr. Zakir Naik, the Vedas strictly forbids any image of God. 

i.  Yajurveda Chapter 32, Verse 3  It is mentioned in Yajurveda  “na tasya pratima asti”  “There is no image of Him”

Is not the Vedas more sacred than the Upanishads, and the teachings of the Vedas most sacred of all Hindu teachings?    

Link to Dr Zakir Naik's 'Similarities between Islam and Hinduism: 

http://www.islamawareness.net/Hinduism/ZakirNaik/ 

The page from where I've quoted Yujurveda 32:3 

http://www.islamawareness.net/Hinduism/ZakirNaik/part2.html  

Satan

JM wrote: Atheism is more than just absence of belief IMO: it requires a supernatural to disbelief in it. I look at a 'religiously motivated violence' with suspicion since I still look for a fitting definition for 'religious'. I asked Samiya where does 'Satan' come into the picture in vain. IMO every thinking person starts out with SOME belief (e.g. the existence (reality?) of an infinite complexity we like to call 'WORLD'' of which we only know a small fraction.)  

Answer: I'm not sure exactly what you had earlier asked about Satan and how I had attempted to answer it. I will try to answer 'where does 'Satan' come into the picture?' here.  However, my scripture informs me that we can only warn with this Quran those who believe in the unseen, hence perhaps that is the reason why our discussions have been in vain. 

May I ask why you refuse to admit the existence of a supernatural when you yourself admit that we know only a small fraction of the infinite complexity? And what do you mean by 'supernatural'? Do you use this term to refer to 'The Creator of Nature'?  

So, coming back to your question:  'where does 'Satan' come into the picture?' The following is as I understand it from the Quran. However, due to gaps in my understanding, the sequence of the events may be different, as I attempt to collect my thoughts: 

God, Allah: The Creator, The Sustainer, The King and The Deity, created everything for some purpose. 

He created dJinns and Humans to serve Him. He created dJinns from Fire and Humans from Clay.  The dJinns were created earlier, the humans later. However, there was a period of time when humans were nothing worth mentioning. Excerpts from my blogpost Human Evolution [http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/human-evolution.html]:

Earthly Origins

[Al-Qur’an 71:17, Translator: Sahih International] And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a [progressive] growth. 

Pre-historic Humans 

[Al-Qur’an 76:1, Translator: Sahih International] Has there [not] come upon man a period of time when he was not a thing [even] mentioned?   

Perfection through Evolution 

[Al-Qur’an 32:7-9, Translator: Sahih International] Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay. Then He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained. Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful. 

[unquote] 

The Trust was offered to the Heavens, Earth and Mountains, all refused, scared to undertake the responsibility. Human undertook it. 

This act of being a Trustee necessitates that God judges humans, punishing the idolaters and the hypocrites, while rewarding the believers. 

Quran 33:72-73 Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool. So Allah punisheth hypocritical men and hypocritical women, and idolatrous men and idolatrous women. But Allah pardoneth believing men and believing women, and Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. 

However, the Compassionate and Just God is not going to punish anyone for no fault of theirs. Hence, after creating Adam, God took out Adam's progeny (all potential consciousnesses) and asked us all if He[God] is their god. We all testified to it, and hence each one of us is a witness to our own covenant with God.

Quran 7:172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them],"Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return.

To establish its eligibility to inherit the eternal Garden(s), each consciousness also receives its own temporal life on Earth to prove its worth as a Trustee, and each will be judged individually. 

After God blew His Spirit in Adam, He asked all angels to prostrate/submit to Adam. However, Iblis (Satan / The Chief Deceiver) refused. His refusal to submit to Adam was based upon arrogance. He believes that his being created from Fire makes him superior to Adam who is created from Clay. Not all dJinns are evil, but Satan and his progeny are the sworn enemies of mankind. They watch us from where we cannot see them (another dimension / shadow biosphere / ??) and they are able to whisper suggestions to our minds (desires / temptations / expectations / fears / doubts / ?? ). Whether to act upon the suggestions or to resist them is in our control. Satan and his progeny do not have any real power upon us. Our intellect and our conscience are great blessings, and we must use them together to overcome the challenges.     

We are clearly and repeatedly warned that Satan is a determined, relentless enemy and that humans should not worship him. The only being worthy of worship is the One, True, Ever-Living God, and all other worship are actually forms of Satan-worship, who deceives us in multiple ways. 

Excerpts from my blogpost: Mission of the Messengers [http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/06/mission-of-messengers.html]

Adam’s Covenant and Fall

Quran 20:115 informs us that a covenant was already taken from Adam, but he forgot and there was no firm resolve on his part. The subsequent verses go on to relate the event of all angels prostrating to Adam while Iblees (Satan) refused. Adam is forewarned that Satan is an enemy to Adam and his wife; hence to be careful lest Satan causes their expulsion from the Garden where all their needs (food, clothing, comfort) were taken care of. However, they were seduced by Satan and ate the forbidden fruit. Quran 20:123 informs us that, at the time of their expulsion from the Garden to the earth, Adam and Eve are yet again warned of the enmity between humans and Satan, but that whoever follows God’s guidance will not lose his way or fall into misery. The subsequent verses of Chapter 20 expand upon the result of not heeding to God’s message.  

Satan’s Plan to Destroy Humans

Modern scientific research points to the origin of RNA in clay. Advances in Genetic Engineering are opening new avenues for alterations in and modification of the ‘code of life’. 

Experiments in cloning and cross-breeding on cattle have been going on since the past many years. Though  samples for cloning can be taken from anywhere, the most convenient and popular method is to take sample from the ear. 

The following verses help us understand the relationship between keeping our covenant and duty to God and the womb, and how Satan plans to corrupt creation by means of cloning and cross-breeding: 

Quran 4:117-121 informs us that the rebellious Satan is cursed because he has sworn to take a portion of humans and that: 

‘… And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah ." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss. …’ 

Quran 17:61-66 relating the story when the angels were ordered to prostrate to Adam, quotes Iblees' (Satan) objection to prostrate to one made of clay, vowing that ‘I will surely destroy his descendants, except for a few’. Granting Iblees respite till the Day of Resurrection, he is given permission to: ‘Go, for whoever of them follows you, indeed Hell will be the recompense of you - an ample recompense. And incite [to senselessness] whoever you can among them with your voice and assault them with your horses and foot soldiers and become a partner in their wealth and their children and promise them.’ 

[unquote] 

Leviticus 18-20 also forbids cross-breeding and related harmful practices. 

It is important to note that Iblis [Satan] is not unaware of God. He acknowledges God, yet refuses to obey Him. He arrogantly considers himself superior to another creation, and yet prays, to the same God he is daring to disobey, to grant him respite to the Day of Judgement. In the narrative in the Quran, Adam and his wife also err, tempted by Satan: 'Then Satan whispered to him; he said, "O Adam, shall I direct you to the tree of eternity and possession that will not deteriorate?" ' [http://quran.com/20/120]. Yet they humbly admit their error and turn to God in repentance. Hence, the importance of humility, submission and piety, the will to keep our duty to God. That, in my understanding, is what Faith is all about: willful submission to the Will of God!