Male bias in the Holy Scriptures

Excerpts from a discussion on male bias in the holy scriptures in response to the following comment by GS:
Usually I use male words to describe god when I'm feeling like a lazy typer because the male words tend to be shorter.
The only thing stranger to me than people presuming that god has a gender(more with the monotheist), is that people place such importance on it.
What difference does it make? He/she/it would have to be of sufficient intelligence to create a universe, therefore he/she/it should have some idea that humans are pretty stupid, and he/she/it probably has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so.
Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding. Why obsess over unimportant details? Enlightenment awaits.


My Comment: This is such a sensible mail... God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.
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Y commented: G-d is 'him' in the scriptures and other holy texts because the feminine has been regarded as second-rate for a long time (and still is). Women and men deserve equal respect, and how we refer to the Divine One is one place to make an improvement. I use 'S/He,' and am open to other suggestions. :)
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My Comment: What you say is another angle of looking at it, but as far as the Holy Quran is concerned, we believe the arabic text to be the authentic, untampered word of God. And, in it He has used the male tense to refer to Himself.
In fact, the grammar of the Quran is such that only the specifically female are referred to in the female gender, whereas when speaking generally or collectively, the male tense is employed to cover all. For example, when speaking of / to humans (an-naas), the plural male form is employed.
I feel its basically the grammatical construct of the language, and just to be accepted as is.
Just my two cents.
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Y commented: The problem with male bias is not limited to the Koran; it is also evident in the Torah, the Gospels, and other religions' holy texts. You don't believe that G-d is male do you? If you don't believe that All-h is male, then you ought to be motivated to do something about an obvious problem. If someone were disrespecting your mother, or sister, or wife, would you do nothing? I hope not. :)
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My Comment: Y, the analogy is, I feel, a bit far-fetched. God is nothing like we can ever imagine... we simply do not have the vision or capacity. How does one prove what God is when one is so clueless? When Allah tells me that He cannot be imagined or understood/comprehended by my mortal mind, how do I go about 'solving this obvious problem'?
To quote GS (and myself) again: [God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.]
As GS said, [Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding.]
May God guide us to focus upon and do the deeds that need to be done
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Y commented: I am glad that you agree that G-d is beyond gender. Holy texts ought to be rewritten to reflect this. And, we ought to change the words we use to reflect this as well. The male bias in referring to G-d has had real world consequences for women (second-class status). This is not trivial.
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My Comment: Y, I'm a woman, and I have no problem with that. God does not degrade or assign second class status to women, He's just created males and females differently to complement and complete each other, and as such the nature of responsibilities assigned are different. Whether the scripture reflects male or female bias or otherwise will have no bearing on how women are treated in society... the weak are oppressed and exploited, its the law of the jungle, and most people can't seem to rise above their base selves to actualize their true potential. If people start following the scripture, in letter and in spirit, these problems would vanish away.
If I may, I was just reading this passage, think it bears some significance to the discussion:
Holy Quran Chapter 4, Verses 116-126
116 Lo! Allah pardoneth not that partners should be ascribed unto Him. He pardoneth all save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah hath wandered far astray.
117 They invoke in His stead only females; they pray to none else than Satan, a rebel
118 Whom Allah cursed, and he said: Surely I will take of Thy bondmen an appointed portion,
119 And surely I will lead them astray, and surely I will arouse desires in them, and surely I will command them and they will cut the cattle' ears, and surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation. Whoso chooseth Satan for a patron instead of Allah is verily a loser and his loss is manifest.
120 He promiseth them and stirreth up desires in them, and Satan promiseth them only to beguile.
121 For such, their habitation will be hell, and they will find no refuge therefrom.
122 But as for those who believe and do good works We shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. It is a promise from Allah in truth; and who can be more truthful than Allah in utterance?
123 It will not be in accordance with your desires, nor the desires of the People of the Scripture. He who doeth wrong will have the recompense thereof, and will not find against Allah any protecting friend or helper.
124 And whoso doeth good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date-stone.
125 Who is better in religion than he who surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good (to men) and followeth the tradition of Abraham, the upright? Allah (Himself) chose Abraham for friend.
126 Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Allah ever surroundeth all things.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=4
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Y commented: Thank you Samiya for your thoughts. :)
I am glad that you are a woman. :) And I agree with you that G-d does not regard women as second class. G-d created women and men as equal partners, with different gifts.
When the weak are oppressed and exploited, a community is about to self-destruct. The strong must help the weak in order for a community to thrive.
Again I will state that holy texts should be rewritten to remove the male bias. The male bias does cause harm.
Namaste and Salaam and Shalom,

Reading Scientific and Mathematical proofs into Holy Books?

Question: I have a deep concern with the practice of reading scientific and mathematical proofs into holy books that were written by persons living in a pre scientific age. Recently in my country it became popular for some biblical scholars to claim that the Old Testament contained secret number codes, and that these number codes could be used to predict future events. Some argued that only God could have inserted these number codes into the old testament, and that this was clearly proof that the old testament had God as its source. Computer modelling has since shown that the appearance of certain numbers within the old testament is purely random, and that it is wrong to read things into the ancient texts that were never intended by the original writers.
I also have major fears of persons insisting that all of THEIR holy texts should be taken literally. I know of some Orthodox Jews who believe that they have the correct understanding of their holy books, and that only they are being faithful to the teachings and commands of God. My Roman Catholic friends believe that Jesus was the son of God, and that only they have a full and accurate understanding of the teachings and commands of God. My Muslim friends believe that only they have the true teachings and commands from God. Now to my mind, something is clearly not right here, which is why I asked my original question about trusting any of the holy scriptures. I have no doubt about the existence of God, anyone who studies the wonders of science would be hard pressed to say otherwise. But I do still see the big religions as being man made and largely male dominated, yet I do not see or sense that God is male. Clearly I have much more to explore and learn !!!!

Answer: We are told by Allah in the Quran that he has sent numerous prophets and revealed various books to mankind, and that as Muslims, we have to believe in them, and respect them.
Having said that, we are also informed that people have over the ages changed the message to suit their interests, so that now they are no longer in their pure form.
We are also told that Allah Himself takes the responsibility of protecting the Quran from changes as it is the final revelation till the end of time, and no other prophet will hence be sent for the guidance of humanity. The Quran is a guidance for all humanity, not just Muslims.
Furthermore, the reader of the Quran is constantly challenged to ponder and reflect upon the message and the signs all around. We are urged to study and evaluate critically, and then believe.
The belief that comes from such understanding and evaluation is naturally one of complete faith and submission…….. it just cannot be otherwise.
I understand your concern, but that is the litmus test……… if it was written by ‘persons living in a pre scientific age’ it is bound to have errors intermixed with some truths that their Prophet informed them of and they were able to record.
Whereas if it is a book from God, protected by God, unadulterated by humans, it should definitely contain no errors as the Creator knows exactly what He created and is not limited in knowledge, nor has any need to lie.
We can theorize all we want based on our knowledge, understanding, intellect and heart ( and we should, as it is an important part of trying to understand), but there has to be some way of testing these theories………. one is to put it to the test of science!
I hope you understand what I’m trying to explain……….. the Holy Quran is a book of Guidance and not a text book of science………… yet since it is from God, whatever scientific phenomenon it refers to should be verifiable……… if not, then we would face the same dilemma other ‘people of the book’ face…. that some of it is from God, some portions written by humans, and it would be a constant challenge sifting out the primary from the secondary.
Were you able to go through the links I sent you earlier…tell me what you think of them?

As far as God being a he or she is concerned, God is above and beyond that. God has created in pairs, males and females for reproductive purposes of moral beings, while God is immortal, has always been and will always be, and thus has no need to be either male or female. Referring to God as He/Him is just a traditional/cultural/linguistical/anthropological way of addressing or referring to God.

I was born in a traditional muslim family which practiced Islam as it is practiced in the sub-continent. Obviously a lot of culture, and influence of Hinduism, Sikhism, etc was also there. Luckily, my dad always believed in critical evaluation while being religious at the same time, thus from a very early age, I was encouraged to understand and separate religious ‘do’ from all other doooos, thus helping me understand how simple and true the original message of Islam was as compared to the complicated practices of ‘evolved’ societies. I was also able to draw upon the works of a lot of scholars who have studied the Quran from different angles and helped establish that it is indeed the true unadulterated word of God. Also, studying other religions and faith systems, I have come to understand that all contain some element of truth, but the message has somehow been distorted over time, something that Allah Himself has already informed us about, as mentioned above. Joining this group was part of the same journey….. I needed to interact with actual people of other beliefs and understand how come they also so strongly believe in whatever they believe in. Its been a wonderful journey, enriching me with new ideas, thoughts and ways of looking at things. This is a great group indeed. Hope your journey here is just as rewarding as mine has been.