Question: The "god" that gave the "law" to Moses forgot to mention anything about some "eternity", or hope of some "afterlife"........i guess he was just too busy? :))))))))))
Answer: I do not think God forgot, I think the people didn’t like the notion of after-life, reward and punishment, and thus slowly weeded it out of the Book.
I think so because I believe that the approach of God and His dictates have been consistent throughout the ages……… He has repeatedly sent messengers telling people this life is but a trial, and that there is a final destination beyond death, an eternal life, and He has sent guidance regarding that. When He stopped sending messengers, He guarded His last message…… it’s a miracle in itself that no alphabet or word of the Holy Quran has changed since it was revealed………and this book addresses all humans and transcends time.
Sunday, August 23, 2009
What is meant by 'if' in the scriptures
Question: Thank you for the excerpt from the Quran as well, as I am unfamiliar with it at this time. One similarity between the bible and the Quran seems to be the word "if".
M has commented on this several times and made a good point of that word indicating the Holy One's love being conditional. In other words, "if" you do this I will love you.
I can see that and try to remain cognizant of it when I read any religious text.
However, there is another perspective. This one was also discussed during the Kabbalah workshop I attended this week. Rabbi W stated that when a scripture says "if" it actually means "when". For instance, "If you study diligently you will surely graduate. ". This statement is not entirely different from something like, "If you live by these words you will surely go to heaven".
Both statements indicate the result of a given action, not an "if you do this, then I'll do that" type of transaction. Which is very different than how we were perceiving it. It truly sheds a new light on everything IMHO.
From what I can tell, it seems to apply to both the bible and the Quran. Do you feel this true?
Answer: Yes, I agree with Rabbi W’s explanation of the word if…….. the book of God is a guidance for mankind and, as such, tells us which actions and beliefs lead us in which direction, and what is the ultimate destination. We believe that Torah, Bible, Quran and many other books/revelations have been sent earlier from the Almighty for the guidance of mankind, so essentially, Yes, the style is consistent throughout: glad tidings for the right beliefs and actions, warning for those who choose other paths. I guess this is the basic requirement for justice, all souls shall carry the burden of their beliefs and actions, and no soul shall be wronged in the slightest.
M has commented on this several times and made a good point of that word indicating the Holy One's love being conditional. In other words, "if" you do this I will love you.
I can see that and try to remain cognizant of it when I read any religious text.
However, there is another perspective. This one was also discussed during the Kabbalah workshop I attended this week. Rabbi W stated that when a scripture says "if" it actually means "when". For instance, "If you study diligently you will surely graduate. ". This statement is not entirely different from something like, "If you live by these words you will surely go to heaven".
Both statements indicate the result of a given action, not an "if you do this, then I'll do that" type of transaction. Which is very different than how we were perceiving it. It truly sheds a new light on everything IMHO.
From what I can tell, it seems to apply to both the bible and the Quran. Do you feel this true?
Answer: Yes, I agree with Rabbi W’s explanation of the word if…….. the book of God is a guidance for mankind and, as such, tells us which actions and beliefs lead us in which direction, and what is the ultimate destination. We believe that Torah, Bible, Quran and many other books/revelations have been sent earlier from the Almighty for the guidance of mankind, so essentially, Yes, the style is consistent throughout: glad tidings for the right beliefs and actions, warning for those who choose other paths. I guess this is the basic requirement for justice, all souls shall carry the burden of their beliefs and actions, and no soul shall be wronged in the slightest.
Jews, the Chosen People?
Question: .. and Jacob was of the people the Lord chose for himself...it then goes on to say that he treated Jacob better than anyone else....huh?Why would God do that? I'm not certain what the interpretation of this scripture is supposed to be, but as it reads, it doesn't sound very good to me....
Answer: That the Jews were the chosen people is in our scriptures as well. The explanation is that when a Prophet is sent to a people with divine message, they are indeed blessed to have received it and thus, they are bound to honour the covenant they make with God. Since after Prophet Abraham, all Prophets were from his progeny, and the Jews or Bani Israel are the family of Jacob, they were the chosen people and that carried with it great responsibility.
We are reminded over and over again in the Quran that the Bani Israel were blessed above all the nations, yet they disobeyed and thus have lost that privileged status. Now, the message has been sent to Bani Ishmael (Ishmael was the other son of Abraham) through his progeny Muhammad, and thus we should forever be careful not to make the mistakes that the Jews did, and if we do, then we should also be prepared to suffer a similar fate.
The Holy Quran, Chapter 5
Verse 12: Allah made a covenant of old with the Children of Israel and We raised among them twelve chieftains, and Allah said: Lo! I am with you. If ye establish worship and pay the poor-due, and believe in My messengers and support them, and lend unto Allah a kindly loan, surely I shall remit yoursins, and surely I shall bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow. Whoso among you disbelieveth after this will go astray from a plain road.
Verse 13: And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them.Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.
Verse 14: And with those who say: "Lo! we are Christians," We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished.Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork.
Verse 15: O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain Scripture,Verse 16: Whereby Allah guideth him who seeketh His good pleasure unto paths of peace. He bringeth them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guideth them unto a straight path.http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=5
Follow up question: I have throughout my life had an issue with how Abraham set Hagar and Ishmael off as if they were not important. This story will forever remain unsettling to me.
Answer: Why Prophet Abraham had to send Hagar and Ishmael off, I do not know for sure…. The only thing I do know is that he was a very good person and a prophet, and thus there must have been some compulsion, some unavoidable circumstances, that led to such an event. There are all sorts of stories, from the Jewish as well as Islamic sources, but yes, they just don’t seem to match up with the character of a prophet, a man of God…..but then these are history recorded by men, and as such not to be blindly relied upon.
Answer: That the Jews were the chosen people is in our scriptures as well. The explanation is that when a Prophet is sent to a people with divine message, they are indeed blessed to have received it and thus, they are bound to honour the covenant they make with God. Since after Prophet Abraham, all Prophets were from his progeny, and the Jews or Bani Israel are the family of Jacob, they were the chosen people and that carried with it great responsibility.
We are reminded over and over again in the Quran that the Bani Israel were blessed above all the nations, yet they disobeyed and thus have lost that privileged status. Now, the message has been sent to Bani Ishmael (Ishmael was the other son of Abraham) through his progeny Muhammad, and thus we should forever be careful not to make the mistakes that the Jews did, and if we do, then we should also be prepared to suffer a similar fate.
The Holy Quran, Chapter 5
Verse 12: Allah made a covenant of old with the Children of Israel and We raised among them twelve chieftains, and Allah said: Lo! I am with you. If ye establish worship and pay the poor-due, and believe in My messengers and support them, and lend unto Allah a kindly loan, surely I shall remit yoursins, and surely I shall bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow. Whoso among you disbelieveth after this will go astray from a plain road.
Verse 13: And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them.Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.
Verse 14: And with those who say: "Lo! we are Christians," We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished.Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork.
Verse 15: O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain Scripture,Verse 16: Whereby Allah guideth him who seeketh His good pleasure unto paths of peace. He bringeth them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guideth them unto a straight path.http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=5
Follow up question: I have throughout my life had an issue with how Abraham set Hagar and Ishmael off as if they were not important. This story will forever remain unsettling to me.
Answer: Why Prophet Abraham had to send Hagar and Ishmael off, I do not know for sure…. The only thing I do know is that he was a very good person and a prophet, and thus there must have been some compulsion, some unavoidable circumstances, that led to such an event. There are all sorts of stories, from the Jewish as well as Islamic sources, but yes, they just don’t seem to match up with the character of a prophet, a man of God…..but then these are history recorded by men, and as such not to be blindly relied upon.
Intolerance and misuse of religion
Question: As with many issues, I've never read about problems concerning this in Buddhism or Hinduism -- do they EVER do anything controversial? I've never read anyone attacking them except fundamentalists from other religions. But I'm not well versed in Eastern religions or affairs, so maybe it's just not reported in the Western sources I read.
Answer: Intolerance and misuse of religion for evil purposes is not limited to a few religions. Great misery is cast upon humans by humans..... some events of not so distant a past: Gujrat Pogrom, Ayodhya . You may wish to check them out.
PS: This is not meant as an insult or injury to any Hindus on this group. All I'm trying to point out is that there are extremists all over, people who will misuse religion to perpetrate evil and terror, and they will use any religion as long as they can achieve their goals and objectives.
Answer: Intolerance and misuse of religion for evil purposes is not limited to a few religions. Great misery is cast upon humans by humans..... some events of not so distant a past: Gujrat Pogrom, Ayodhya . You may wish to check them out.
PS: This is not meant as an insult or injury to any Hindus on this group. All I'm trying to point out is that there are extremists all over, people who will misuse religion to perpetrate evil and terror, and they will use any religion as long as they can achieve their goals and objectives.
War and killing
Question: The Qur'an says its okay to kill your brother/fellowman if he is spreading discord, or has committed murder, infidelity, or adultery. The Old Testament permits certain sins in certain conditions. The Laws of the State invariably allow certain crimes to go unpunished when certain conditions instigated thecrime, such as self-defense or the defense of one's property or family.
All of these exceptions to moral law are instances of the ends justifying the means, the circumstances or conditions of an act serving to justify the act itself. We consider it morally reprehensible that a man should not go to war and murder or be murdered for the cause of his government and the propaganda they espouse. As long as he is following lawful orders, a soldier is not held in any moral accountability for actions which are commonly unacceptable, such as killing another human being, ruthless destruction and theft of property, kidnapping, arson, etc.
A question we must ask and answer is when is it proper to break a moral law, many of which are commonly accepted across diverse cultural boundaries? Who can permit the commission of harmful or sinful actions and set the conditions upon which those actions are permitted? Is it proper to say that only the source of a given law has the right to set conditions upon which that law may justly be broken?
Perhaps we should focus our examination of this question upon a specific category of laws such as those laws that forbid a person to take another person's life; that is, forbid a person from committing murder.
Another questioner responded: I'm up for that. Why is something committing murder, which clearly against the law not considered morally incorrect in war? It is not just OK to kill, but is required.
I am a pacifist and can't understand taking young men (and women) with every potential in the world and making them do the unspeakable in addition toputting their own lives at risk.
How is this justified?
Answer: As I understand it, its only okay to fight in defensive wars, not offensive. Protecting oneself from danger is a basic human instinct.
All of these exceptions to moral law are instances of the ends justifying the means, the circumstances or conditions of an act serving to justify the act itself. We consider it morally reprehensible that a man should not go to war and murder or be murdered for the cause of his government and the propaganda they espouse. As long as he is following lawful orders, a soldier is not held in any moral accountability for actions which are commonly unacceptable, such as killing another human being, ruthless destruction and theft of property, kidnapping, arson, etc.
A question we must ask and answer is when is it proper to break a moral law, many of which are commonly accepted across diverse cultural boundaries? Who can permit the commission of harmful or sinful actions and set the conditions upon which those actions are permitted? Is it proper to say that only the source of a given law has the right to set conditions upon which that law may justly be broken?
Perhaps we should focus our examination of this question upon a specific category of laws such as those laws that forbid a person to take another person's life; that is, forbid a person from committing murder.
Another questioner responded: I'm up for that. Why is something committing murder, which clearly against the law not considered morally incorrect in war? It is not just OK to kill, but is required.
I am a pacifist and can't understand taking young men (and women) with every potential in the world and making them do the unspeakable in addition toputting their own lives at risk.
How is this justified?
Answer: As I understand it, its only okay to fight in defensive wars, not offensive. Protecting oneself from danger is a basic human instinct.
The Great Contest Between the Forces of Light and Darkness
Question: If all Gods are just facets of the one God, is not Satan also a facet of God?
I see no point in fearing God, Satan/God or Jehovah/God included, there is nothing to gain and everything to lose if I fear God. I would much rather respect God. Fear to me is akin to hatred, something to offer my adversaries, or for my adversaries to see in me. It is not something I would offer, or expect from any being whom I love.
I would rather seek to know and respect any God force. To hold fear in my heart is to know distrust, not something I would like to show any loving God force for in that moment of distrust, or fear if you like, I could expect nothing other than rejection.
Fear is something to be shown by ones prey, it initiates our fight or flee response.
It seems to me if I were to fear a/the God force, I would be running away from it when I would rather move towards it.
Answer: Acknowledging one or more gods, and fear or love of God are two separate things. We can choose to be either grateful to the benevolent creator, and love and thank Him for all His care and love and compassion, and consequently obey Him, loyally and lovingly, or we can fear Him and obey Him out of fear of misfortune... that depends on our perspective and understanding. Allah, in the Quran, repeatedly introduces Himself as the loving, compassionate, merciful deity. He informs us of the hereafter, of His universal justice, and gives glad tidings and warnings regarding the same.
Choosing to worship just the one and only creator, or worshiping everything that has the power to give or take anything of value is our choice to make.
When we choose to worship more than one god, I see the fear factor and accompanying superstitions more in such a path. Knowing that there is only one omnipotent force, who creates and controls all, and without whose permission no other can harm or bless anybody else, is a great liberating force.
As they say, its all in the mind!
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Upon further discussion: You quoted: Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.'
That itself tells us plainly that no matter what Satan says he has or can offer anybody, he is not God and thus what God says and offers is far better and more reliable.
When God tells us that Satan (or anybody else for that matter) can do only as much as God permits him, then we should simply focus all our energies in finding out what God expects of us, obeying Him and seeking His protection from the devil.
I think the world can be viewed as dualist, tripalist, poly-alist, as many forces we want to fear and reckon with..... but the unitary approach is the simplest, easiest and classiest: one creator, rest all created.... and no servant greater than his master, that is, no created being equal to or greater than the Creator!
I see no point in fearing God, Satan/God or Jehovah/God included, there is nothing to gain and everything to lose if I fear God. I would much rather respect God. Fear to me is akin to hatred, something to offer my adversaries, or for my adversaries to see in me. It is not something I would offer, or expect from any being whom I love.
I would rather seek to know and respect any God force. To hold fear in my heart is to know distrust, not something I would like to show any loving God force for in that moment of distrust, or fear if you like, I could expect nothing other than rejection.
Fear is something to be shown by ones prey, it initiates our fight or flee response.
It seems to me if I were to fear a/the God force, I would be running away from it when I would rather move towards it.
Answer: Acknowledging one or more gods, and fear or love of God are two separate things. We can choose to be either grateful to the benevolent creator, and love and thank Him for all His care and love and compassion, and consequently obey Him, loyally and lovingly, or we can fear Him and obey Him out of fear of misfortune... that depends on our perspective and understanding. Allah, in the Quran, repeatedly introduces Himself as the loving, compassionate, merciful deity. He informs us of the hereafter, of His universal justice, and gives glad tidings and warnings regarding the same.
Choosing to worship just the one and only creator, or worshiping everything that has the power to give or take anything of value is our choice to make.
When we choose to worship more than one god, I see the fear factor and accompanying superstitions more in such a path. Knowing that there is only one omnipotent force, who creates and controls all, and without whose permission no other can harm or bless anybody else, is a great liberating force.
As they say, its all in the mind!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Upon further discussion: You quoted: Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.'
That itself tells us plainly that no matter what Satan says he has or can offer anybody, he is not God and thus what God says and offers is far better and more reliable.
When God tells us that Satan (or anybody else for that matter) can do only as much as God permits him, then we should simply focus all our energies in finding out what God expects of us, obeying Him and seeking His protection from the devil.
I think the world can be viewed as dualist, tripalist, poly-alist, as many forces we want to fear and reckon with..... but the unitary approach is the simplest, easiest and classiest: one creator, rest all created.... and no servant greater than his master, that is, no created being equal to or greater than the Creator!
Dualism
Question: Anyone want to explain to me why dualism is not a viable wayof looking at things?
Answer: As there can be no two leaders of a nation or organization, no two kings or presidents, there can not be two gods. God has to be one and only one to have complete authority and freedom, to be omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful.
Observation of nature leads one to reasonably assume that there is a guiding force (a pattern-imposing force as V would put it) which creates with such clockwork precision and beauty, encoded programming and replication,and so on and so forth. Even things/events/creatures which do not appear as nice/pleasant/beautiful have the underlying clockwork precision and infallible programming. All that must emanate from a deity, and only one deity, because two or more would eventually have differences, and thus would no longer be able to co-exist. As they themselves would be immortal/eternal (our concept of God being uncreated and thus from forever till forever), they would eventually seek out to destroy each others work and all created things would come to an end. For things to be as beautiful, wonderful, precise and orderly as they are, there has to be only one God.
Considering the above premise to be true, how does one explain the continuous war between good and evil. My answer is FREE-WILL and its misuseby both humans and djinns.
Remembering that God is omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful leads us to theunderstanding that inspite of a grand and vast celestial plan, he has the time and the ability to be a personal deity for each and everyone of his creatures...He created all, He knows all, He cares for all, and He respondsto all.
Why God allows some to suffer while others enjoy a luxurious life, He Himself best knows, though I have attempted to answer that question before (link below). The problem is that we try to judge God without having a complete knowledge of what exactly is going on. The story of Moses and Khizr aptly illustrates this short-coming:
Chapter 18 (Kahf) Translated by M. Pickthal
65 Then found they one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us,and had taught him knowledge from Our presence.
66 Moses said unto him: May I follow thee, to the end that thou mayst teachme right conduct of that which thou hast been taught?
67 He said: Lo! thou canst not bear with me.
68 How canst thou bear with that whereof thou canst not compass anyknowledge?
69 He said: Allah willing, thou shalt find me patient and I shall not inaught gainsay thee.
70 He said: Well, if thou go with me, ask me not concerning aught till Imyself make mention of it unto thee.
71 So they twain set out till, when they were in the ship, he made a holetherein. (Moses) said: Hast thou made a hole therein to drown the folkthereof? Thou verily hast done a dreadful thing.
72 He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me?
73 (Moses) said: Be not wroth with me that I forgot, and be not hard upon mefor my fault.
74 So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him.(Moses) said: What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man?Verily thou hast done a horrid thing.
75 He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me?
76 (Moses) said: If I ask thee after this concerning aught, keep not companywith me. Thou hast received an excuse from me.
77 So they twain journeyed on till, when they came unto the folk of acertain township, they asked its folk for food, but they refused to makethem guests. And they found therein a wall upon the point of falling intoruin, and he repaired it. (Moses) said: If thou hadst wished, thou couldsthave taken payment for it.
78 He said: This is the parting between thee and me! I will announce untothee the interpretation of that thou couldst not bear with patience.
79 As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working on the river, and Iwished to mar it, for there was a king behind them who is taking every shipby force.
80 And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest heshould oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
81 And we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one betterin purity and nearer to mercy.
82 And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city, andthere was beneath it a treasure belonging to them, and their father had beenrighteous, and thy Lord intended that they should come to their fullstrength and should bring forth their treasure as a mercy from their Lord;and I did it not upon my own command. Such is the interpretation of thatwherewith thou couldst not bear.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=18&translator=4&mac=
Link of a previous answer:http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/12/all-loving-perfect-god.html
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M, you responded: "a child is not born based onFREE-WILL.................nor will it die, based on FREE-WILL..............a person may choose many things, but there are many things that will happen, regardless of CHOICE." And, in another post, you write: "we is just ants, following well wornpaths.............."
See, this is exactly what I've also been (trying) to say all along, that is,that we are sent here for a fixed period(trial), that we have freedom of choice (free-will), that everything is already programmed/paths or roads already mapped/decreed (that is all happens exactly as God has decreed) regardless of choice, because all possible choices are already pre-programmed and consequent paths mapped.
We both belief that there is a Creator, we both believe that we do not have much control ( if any) over what happens, and we are too tiny (peanuts) inthe cosmic scale of things to be able to comprehend God.
R, coming back to your point, you seem to believe that Satan/Lucifer is in control /has domain over planet Earth, and God is somehow incapable of intervening, unable to stop him from perpetrating evil. I believe that even Satan is on a licence from God, and all that he is able to do is suggest evil ideas to humans, whereas we are endowed with intellect, conscience/ morality, and freedom of choice. It is upon each of us, as individuals, to choose to do good or evil, and the world is shaped by the consequences of our collective actions, not because God is unable to intervene, but because God has programmed (decreed) all possible outcomes. Birth, death, disease, health, poverty, wealth, and so many other things are not in our direct control, and we naturally worry, fret and dismay over our helplessness, and then try to find explanations why the all-loving, ever-merciful deity does not intervene and put an end to suffering. Ofcourse, there are many human conditions that worry me just as much as theyworry you all as well, but are we qualified to judge God? The proof that God is able to intervene is to be found in the experiences of those who pray and have their prayers answered. Since most choose not to pray, atleast directly to God, and since sometimes God also chooses to not grant us that which we pray for, it is indeed difficult to establish such interventions scientifically/empirically.
There are a myriad of faith systems out there, and in the absence of a direct means of communication with God, how is one to arrive at the correct set of beliefs, if I may put it that way.
We've discussed earlier why I believe the Quran is divine revelation, so I don't think repetition is necessary. http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/holy-quran-word-of-god.html
As you know, we muslims pray five times a day, and we start with recitation of the first seven verses of the Quran. The key prayer is verse 6: ehdinassirat al mustaqeem meaning Show us the straight path! I'd like to share theprayer with you
Translated by M.Pickthal
1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.
4 Master of the Day of Judgment,
5 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
6 Show us the straight path,
7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those whoearn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
The above oft-repeated seven verses are a reminder that we need to keep learning, to keep praying, and to ever be wary of being misled by the whisperings of Satan and the myriad of philosophies, and to remember that on the basis of our intellect alone we will not be able to reach anywhere, and that we are always in need of divine guidance and help. Hope I've been able to clarify why dualism doesn't appear viable to me, and why I believe what I believe.
Answer: As there can be no two leaders of a nation or organization, no two kings or presidents, there can not be two gods. God has to be one and only one to have complete authority and freedom, to be omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful.
Observation of nature leads one to reasonably assume that there is a guiding force (a pattern-imposing force as V would put it) which creates with such clockwork precision and beauty, encoded programming and replication,and so on and so forth. Even things/events/creatures which do not appear as nice/pleasant/beautiful have the underlying clockwork precision and infallible programming. All that must emanate from a deity, and only one deity, because two or more would eventually have differences, and thus would no longer be able to co-exist. As they themselves would be immortal/eternal (our concept of God being uncreated and thus from forever till forever), they would eventually seek out to destroy each others work and all created things would come to an end. For things to be as beautiful, wonderful, precise and orderly as they are, there has to be only one God.
Considering the above premise to be true, how does one explain the continuous war between good and evil. My answer is FREE-WILL and its misuseby both humans and djinns.
Remembering that God is omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful leads us to theunderstanding that inspite of a grand and vast celestial plan, he has the time and the ability to be a personal deity for each and everyone of his creatures...He created all, He knows all, He cares for all, and He respondsto all.
Why God allows some to suffer while others enjoy a luxurious life, He Himself best knows, though I have attempted to answer that question before (link below). The problem is that we try to judge God without having a complete knowledge of what exactly is going on. The story of Moses and Khizr aptly illustrates this short-coming:
Chapter 18 (Kahf) Translated by M. Pickthal
65 Then found they one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us,and had taught him knowledge from Our presence.
66 Moses said unto him: May I follow thee, to the end that thou mayst teachme right conduct of that which thou hast been taught?
67 He said: Lo! thou canst not bear with me.
68 How canst thou bear with that whereof thou canst not compass anyknowledge?
69 He said: Allah willing, thou shalt find me patient and I shall not inaught gainsay thee.
70 He said: Well, if thou go with me, ask me not concerning aught till Imyself make mention of it unto thee.
71 So they twain set out till, when they were in the ship, he made a holetherein. (Moses) said: Hast thou made a hole therein to drown the folkthereof? Thou verily hast done a dreadful thing.
72 He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me?
73 (Moses) said: Be not wroth with me that I forgot, and be not hard upon mefor my fault.
74 So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him.(Moses) said: What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man?Verily thou hast done a horrid thing.
75 He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me?
76 (Moses) said: If I ask thee after this concerning aught, keep not companywith me. Thou hast received an excuse from me.
77 So they twain journeyed on till, when they came unto the folk of acertain township, they asked its folk for food, but they refused to makethem guests. And they found therein a wall upon the point of falling intoruin, and he repaired it. (Moses) said: If thou hadst wished, thou couldsthave taken payment for it.
78 He said: This is the parting between thee and me! I will announce untothee the interpretation of that thou couldst not bear with patience.
79 As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working on the river, and Iwished to mar it, for there was a king behind them who is taking every shipby force.
80 And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest heshould oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
81 And we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one betterin purity and nearer to mercy.
82 And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city, andthere was beneath it a treasure belonging to them, and their father had beenrighteous, and thy Lord intended that they should come to their fullstrength and should bring forth their treasure as a mercy from their Lord;and I did it not upon my own command. Such is the interpretation of thatwherewith thou couldst not bear.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=18&translator=4&mac=
Link of a previous answer:http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/12/all-loving-perfect-god.html
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M, you responded: "a child is not born based onFREE-WILL.................nor will it die, based on FREE-WILL..............a person may choose many things, but there are many things that will happen, regardless of CHOICE." And, in another post, you write: "we is just ants, following well wornpaths.............."
See, this is exactly what I've also been (trying) to say all along, that is,that we are sent here for a fixed period(trial), that we have freedom of choice (free-will), that everything is already programmed/paths or roads already mapped/decreed (that is all happens exactly as God has decreed) regardless of choice, because all possible choices are already pre-programmed and consequent paths mapped.
We both belief that there is a Creator, we both believe that we do not have much control ( if any) over what happens, and we are too tiny (peanuts) inthe cosmic scale of things to be able to comprehend God.
R, coming back to your point, you seem to believe that Satan/Lucifer is in control /has domain over planet Earth, and God is somehow incapable of intervening, unable to stop him from perpetrating evil. I believe that even Satan is on a licence from God, and all that he is able to do is suggest evil ideas to humans, whereas we are endowed with intellect, conscience/ morality, and freedom of choice. It is upon each of us, as individuals, to choose to do good or evil, and the world is shaped by the consequences of our collective actions, not because God is unable to intervene, but because God has programmed (decreed) all possible outcomes. Birth, death, disease, health, poverty, wealth, and so many other things are not in our direct control, and we naturally worry, fret and dismay over our helplessness, and then try to find explanations why the all-loving, ever-merciful deity does not intervene and put an end to suffering. Ofcourse, there are many human conditions that worry me just as much as theyworry you all as well, but are we qualified to judge God? The proof that God is able to intervene is to be found in the experiences of those who pray and have their prayers answered. Since most choose not to pray, atleast directly to God, and since sometimes God also chooses to not grant us that which we pray for, it is indeed difficult to establish such interventions scientifically/empirically.
There are a myriad of faith systems out there, and in the absence of a direct means of communication with God, how is one to arrive at the correct set of beliefs, if I may put it that way.
We've discussed earlier why I believe the Quran is divine revelation, so I don't think repetition is necessary. http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/holy-quran-word-of-god.html
As you know, we muslims pray five times a day, and we start with recitation of the first seven verses of the Quran. The key prayer is verse 6: ehdinassirat al mustaqeem meaning Show us the straight path! I'd like to share theprayer with you
Translated by M.Pickthal
1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.
4 Master of the Day of Judgment,
5 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
6 Show us the straight path,
7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those whoearn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
The above oft-repeated seven verses are a reminder that we need to keep learning, to keep praying, and to ever be wary of being misled by the whisperings of Satan and the myriad of philosophies, and to remember that on the basis of our intellect alone we will not be able to reach anywhere, and that we are always in need of divine guidance and help. Hope I've been able to clarify why dualism doesn't appear viable to me, and why I believe what I believe.
Animal Sacrifice and Vegetarianism
This is in response to a discussion between a Jew, a Christian and myself
Being permitted to eat meat is not the same as being obliged to eat meat... we can be good muslims or good jews while being vegetarians at the sametime. No contradiction there in my mind. We are reminded again and again that life is sacred and a gift of God, not to be taken lightly, and therefore, slaughtering can be done for food only, but pronouncing the name of God (remembering Him and His gift of life) at the time is a must. Infact, we are also told that other than the permitted animals, in case of dire hunger and no other alternative, anything can be consumed.
But if you are a vegan, then animal sacrifice... yes that is a test of faith! For us muslims, it is only compulsory once in a lifetime, that also if one is in a financial position to afford to travel for pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah(KSA). Due to the huge number (millions) of muslims performing Hajj, the government there has made arrangements such that one can just buy coupons and the govt will ensure that the sacrifice is performed and the meat distributed as well. I'm guessing one who goes for pilgrimage is such as believes in the God of the Quran, and knows that God knows best.
My Jewish friend responded thus:
Thank you for your post and it has brought new thoughts to mind! On Passover, one of the ritual parts of the holiday is to prepare a Seder plate (many say the last supper was a Passover meal, Seder) The Seder plate is prepared with several symbolic foods which commemorate the freeing of the Hebrews from slavery under Pharaoh. One of the items is supposed to be a lamb shank bone. Often this is not available and a roasted chicken leg or wing may be used in its place. If one is a vegetarian a beet is often used in this spot. The symbol is one which stands for the lamb that was sacrificed to mark the doors of the Hebrews so when the angel of death passed over (thus Passover) the first born would not be smitten (this was the last of the ten plagues). It is said that the lamb was then cooked and shared among the people. Today, the item placed on the Seder plate would not be eaten, it's just a symbol.
Jews are not required to eat meat. I know very many who are vegetarian or vegan. Also, part of the whole kashrut (kosher dietary laws) require many different types of food not to be eaten - all those listed in the OT (I believe in Leviticus) for example, no pork, no shellfish, no fish without scales, no animal without split hoofs or those who don't chew their cud. Even with beef, we're not suppose to eat meat from the back portion of the cow because blood is never to be consumed and the intricacy of the veins and such in the back portion of a cow is too difficult to remove. That part of the cow is sold to other meat packing plants for general use.
As you mentioned, we must remain mindful that this is a living being and not just a something to grab and eat. The animal must always be treated as a gift and a living thing, never to be taken for granted.
I read a wonderful book about 8 months ago called "Life of Pi". It is a novel but it addresses so much of what we discuss here that I strongly recommend it to any and all of our members. In the book a young man, around 13 or so ends up alone on a lifeboat after a cargo ship sinks with his entire family, their zoo animals and all their belongings.
Pi is a gentle boy who is very spiritual, reflective and good. He is a vegetarian, he is also searching for his faith. Prior to ending up on the boat he was drawn by Hindu, Islam and Christianity simultaneously. He even frequented each house of worship secretly and spoke with each of the clergy.
Now on this boat, alone in the vast ocean with nothing but horizon surrounding him for months he has to come to terms with his God, he learns what true hunger means and that even turtle blood is a welcome and tasty treat when there is nothing else to survive on. It was compelling and forces one to consider that no matter what we call our reality and brings us balance something can occur in our lives that forces us into a whole other reality with a brand new sources of balance.
Being permitted to eat meat is not the same as being obliged to eat meat... we can be good muslims or good jews while being vegetarians at the sametime. No contradiction there in my mind. We are reminded again and again that life is sacred and a gift of God, not to be taken lightly, and therefore, slaughtering can be done for food only, but pronouncing the name of God (remembering Him and His gift of life) at the time is a must. Infact, we are also told that other than the permitted animals, in case of dire hunger and no other alternative, anything can be consumed.
But if you are a vegan, then animal sacrifice... yes that is a test of faith! For us muslims, it is only compulsory once in a lifetime, that also if one is in a financial position to afford to travel for pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah(KSA). Due to the huge number (millions) of muslims performing Hajj, the government there has made arrangements such that one can just buy coupons and the govt will ensure that the sacrifice is performed and the meat distributed as well. I'm guessing one who goes for pilgrimage is such as believes in the God of the Quran, and knows that God knows best.
My Jewish friend responded thus:
Thank you for your post and it has brought new thoughts to mind! On Passover, one of the ritual parts of the holiday is to prepare a Seder plate (many say the last supper was a Passover meal, Seder) The Seder plate is prepared with several symbolic foods which commemorate the freeing of the Hebrews from slavery under Pharaoh. One of the items is supposed to be a lamb shank bone. Often this is not available and a roasted chicken leg or wing may be used in its place. If one is a vegetarian a beet is often used in this spot. The symbol is one which stands for the lamb that was sacrificed to mark the doors of the Hebrews so when the angel of death passed over (thus Passover) the first born would not be smitten (this was the last of the ten plagues). It is said that the lamb was then cooked and shared among the people. Today, the item placed on the Seder plate would not be eaten, it's just a symbol.
Jews are not required to eat meat. I know very many who are vegetarian or vegan. Also, part of the whole kashrut (kosher dietary laws) require many different types of food not to be eaten - all those listed in the OT (I believe in Leviticus) for example, no pork, no shellfish, no fish without scales, no animal without split hoofs or those who don't chew their cud. Even with beef, we're not suppose to eat meat from the back portion of the cow because blood is never to be consumed and the intricacy of the veins and such in the back portion of a cow is too difficult to remove. That part of the cow is sold to other meat packing plants for general use.
As you mentioned, we must remain mindful that this is a living being and not just a something to grab and eat. The animal must always be treated as a gift and a living thing, never to be taken for granted.
I read a wonderful book about 8 months ago called "Life of Pi". It is a novel but it addresses so much of what we discuss here that I strongly recommend it to any and all of our members. In the book a young man, around 13 or so ends up alone on a lifeboat after a cargo ship sinks with his entire family, their zoo animals and all their belongings.
Pi is a gentle boy who is very spiritual, reflective and good. He is a vegetarian, he is also searching for his faith. Prior to ending up on the boat he was drawn by Hindu, Islam and Christianity simultaneously. He even frequented each house of worship secretly and spoke with each of the clergy.
Now on this boat, alone in the vast ocean with nothing but horizon surrounding him for months he has to come to terms with his God, he learns what true hunger means and that even turtle blood is a welcome and tasty treat when there is nothing else to survive on. It was compelling and forces one to consider that no matter what we call our reality and brings us balance something can occur in our lives that forces us into a whole other reality with a brand new sources of balance.
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