Hell fire for Kufr?

SG responding to a debate to someone's comment on an email list:  ...Allah or God or Krishna or Yayweh is not so narrow minded to ask his followers to kill non believers. I think this hatred against non believers and I remember seeing a verse in Quran about non believers going to hell fire may be just added for political reasons in Saudi Arabia. God is all loving and I don't see any reason on why he will give such kind of punishment to non believers or kufr.

My response: 

In Surah Ahzab, the reason for judgement is given as follows:

[http://quran.com/33/72-73 translator: Pickthall]

Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool. So Allah punisheth hypocritical men and hypocritical women, and idolatrous men and idolatrous women. But Allah pardoneth believing men and believing women, and Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

In Surah Yasin, the warning is reiterated:

[http://quran.com/36/60-63 translator: Pickthall]

Did I not charge you, O ye sons of Adam, that ye worship not the devil - Lo! he is your open foe! - But that ye worship Me? That was the right path. Yet he hath led astray of you a great multitude. Had ye then no sense? This is hell which ye were promised (if ye followed him).

In Surah Araf, we are reminded:

[http://quran.com/7/172-174 translator: Pickthall]

And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware; Or lest ye should say: (It is) only (that) our fathers ascribed partners to Allah of old and we were (their) seed after them. Wilt Thou destroy us on account of that which those who follow falsehood did? Thus we detail the revelations, that haply they may return. 

SG response: This Sura 33/72-73 is almost identical to the commandment Moses have to his followers. This is similar to "Thou shall not worship Idols". I just want to say that this commandment is only applicable to Jews, Christians and Muslims. In one of the ancient Upanishads (revelations of God to great sages) God has given instructions on how he can be worshipped in a physical form made out of a stone, metal or a wood. In the famous temple of puri God is carved in a wooden form. I don't see it nothing as Idol worship here. It is god's instruction in very ancient times to worship him in this wooden form. So this instruction of Surah punishing idolatrous men and women have to be carefully analyzed. In fact this very instruction of Quran is responsible for destruction of so many temples by Aurangzeb in India bringing direct conflict with Hindus in ancient times. Less powerful kings kept quiet and more powerful kings fought against him.  

My response: 

I had quoted Quran verse 33:72 in response to your following comment: "...  I remember seeing a verse in Quran about non believers going to hell fire may be just added for political reasons in Saudi Arabia. God is all loving and I don't see any reason on why he will give such kind of punishment to non believers or kufr." 

Quran 33:72 states that the reason why humans must be judged is because humans undertook a certain responsibility: "Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool." 

Please note that God is going to judge and reward/punish in the Hereafter. These verses are not giving the license to anyone to judge or punish anyone on Earth. They are simply informing the reader that even though humans do not have enough knowledge of the unseen nor memory of what went before being sent on Earth, rest assured that there is no injustice being done. Human chose to bear the Trust and its a consequence of that that humans must be judged and recompensed for their performance in the life on Earth. 

I'm surprised to learn from your email that in the Upanishads it is permissible to worship god in physical form, while, according to the research of Dr. Zakir Naik, the Vedas strictly forbids any image of God. 

i.  Yajurveda Chapter 32, Verse 3  It is mentioned in Yajurveda  “na tasya pratima asti”  “There is no image of Him”

Is not the Vedas more sacred than the Upanishads, and the teachings of the Vedas most sacred of all Hindu teachings?    

Link to Dr Zakir Naik's 'Similarities between Islam and Hinduism: 

http://www.islamawareness.net/Hinduism/ZakirNaik/ 

The page from where I've quoted Yujurveda 32:3 

http://www.islamawareness.net/Hinduism/ZakirNaik/part2.html  

Satan

JM wrote: Atheism is more than just absence of belief IMO: it requires a supernatural to disbelief in it. I look at a 'religiously motivated violence' with suspicion since I still look for a fitting definition for 'religious'. I asked Samiya where does 'Satan' come into the picture in vain. IMO every thinking person starts out with SOME belief (e.g. the existence (reality?) of an infinite complexity we like to call 'WORLD'' of which we only know a small fraction.)  

Answer: I'm not sure exactly what you had earlier asked about Satan and how I had attempted to answer it. I will try to answer 'where does 'Satan' come into the picture?' here.  However, my scripture informs me that we can only warn with this Quran those who believe in the unseen, hence perhaps that is the reason why our discussions have been in vain. 

May I ask why you refuse to admit the existence of a supernatural when you yourself admit that we know only a small fraction of the infinite complexity? And what do you mean by 'supernatural'? Do you use this term to refer to 'The Creator of Nature'?  

So, coming back to your question:  'where does 'Satan' come into the picture?' The following is as I understand it from the Quran. However, due to gaps in my understanding, the sequence of the events may be different, as I attempt to collect my thoughts: 

God, Allah: The Creator, The Sustainer, The King and The Deity, created everything for some purpose. 

He created dJinns and Humans to serve Him. He created dJinns from Fire and Humans from Clay.  The dJinns were created earlier, the humans later. However, there was a period of time when humans were nothing worth mentioning. Excerpts from my blogpost Human Evolution [http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/human-evolution.html]:

Earthly Origins

[Al-Qur’an 71:17, Translator: Sahih International] And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a [progressive] growth. 

Pre-historic Humans 

[Al-Qur’an 76:1, Translator: Sahih International] Has there [not] come upon man a period of time when he was not a thing [even] mentioned?   

Perfection through Evolution 

[Al-Qur’an 32:7-9, Translator: Sahih International] Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay. Then He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained. Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful. 

[unquote] 

The Trust was offered to the Heavens, Earth and Mountains, all refused, scared to undertake the responsibility. Human undertook it. 

This act of being a Trustee necessitates that God judges humans, punishing the idolaters and the hypocrites, while rewarding the believers. 

Quran 33:72-73 Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool. So Allah punisheth hypocritical men and hypocritical women, and idolatrous men and idolatrous women. But Allah pardoneth believing men and believing women, and Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful. 

However, the Compassionate and Just God is not going to punish anyone for no fault of theirs. Hence, after creating Adam, God took out Adam's progeny (all potential consciousnesses) and asked us all if He[God] is their god. We all testified to it, and hence each one of us is a witness to our own covenant with God.

Quran 7:172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them],"Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return.

To establish its eligibility to inherit the eternal Garden(s), each consciousness also receives its own temporal life on Earth to prove its worth as a Trustee, and each will be judged individually. 

After God blew His Spirit in Adam, He asked all angels to prostrate/submit to Adam. However, Iblis (Satan / The Chief Deceiver) refused. His refusal to submit to Adam was based upon arrogance. He believes that his being created from Fire makes him superior to Adam who is created from Clay. Not all dJinns are evil, but Satan and his progeny are the sworn enemies of mankind. They watch us from where we cannot see them (another dimension / shadow biosphere / ??) and they are able to whisper suggestions to our minds (desires / temptations / expectations / fears / doubts / ?? ). Whether to act upon the suggestions or to resist them is in our control. Satan and his progeny do not have any real power upon us. Our intellect and our conscience are great blessings, and we must use them together to overcome the challenges.     

We are clearly and repeatedly warned that Satan is a determined, relentless enemy and that humans should not worship him. The only being worthy of worship is the One, True, Ever-Living God, and all other worship are actually forms of Satan-worship, who deceives us in multiple ways. 

Excerpts from my blogpost: Mission of the Messengers [http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/06/mission-of-messengers.html]

Adam’s Covenant and Fall

Quran 20:115 informs us that a covenant was already taken from Adam, but he forgot and there was no firm resolve on his part. The subsequent verses go on to relate the event of all angels prostrating to Adam while Iblees (Satan) refused. Adam is forewarned that Satan is an enemy to Adam and his wife; hence to be careful lest Satan causes their expulsion from the Garden where all their needs (food, clothing, comfort) were taken care of. However, they were seduced by Satan and ate the forbidden fruit. Quran 20:123 informs us that, at the time of their expulsion from the Garden to the earth, Adam and Eve are yet again warned of the enmity between humans and Satan, but that whoever follows God’s guidance will not lose his way or fall into misery. The subsequent verses of Chapter 20 expand upon the result of not heeding to God’s message.  

Satan’s Plan to Destroy Humans

Modern scientific research points to the origin of RNA in clay. Advances in Genetic Engineering are opening new avenues for alterations in and modification of the ‘code of life’. 

Experiments in cloning and cross-breeding on cattle have been going on since the past many years. Though  samples for cloning can be taken from anywhere, the most convenient and popular method is to take sample from the ear. 

The following verses help us understand the relationship between keeping our covenant and duty to God and the womb, and how Satan plans to corrupt creation by means of cloning and cross-breeding: 

Quran 4:117-121 informs us that the rebellious Satan is cursed because he has sworn to take a portion of humans and that: 

‘… And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah ." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss. …’ 

Quran 17:61-66 relating the story when the angels were ordered to prostrate to Adam, quotes Iblees' (Satan) objection to prostrate to one made of clay, vowing that ‘I will surely destroy his descendants, except for a few’. Granting Iblees respite till the Day of Resurrection, he is given permission to: ‘Go, for whoever of them follows you, indeed Hell will be the recompense of you - an ample recompense. And incite [to senselessness] whoever you can among them with your voice and assault them with your horses and foot soldiers and become a partner in their wealth and their children and promise them.’ 

[unquote] 

Leviticus 18-20 also forbids cross-breeding and related harmful practices. 

It is important to note that Iblis [Satan] is not unaware of God. He acknowledges God, yet refuses to obey Him. He arrogantly considers himself superior to another creation, and yet prays, to the same God he is daring to disobey, to grant him respite to the Day of Judgement. In the narrative in the Quran, Adam and his wife also err, tempted by Satan: 'Then Satan whispered to him; he said, "O Adam, shall I direct you to the tree of eternity and possession that will not deteriorate?" ' [http://quran.com/20/120]. Yet they humbly admit their error and turn to God in repentance. Hence, the importance of humility, submission and piety, the will to keep our duty to God. That, in my understanding, is what Faith is all about: willful submission to the Will of God! 

  

Al-Qur'an 4:34 - a circular debate

AZ copied me in an email discussion he was having with someone. Part of the message quoted verse 4:34, and so I commented which led to the following exchange: 

Excerpt of AZ's email I was copied in: ...What do you find wrong in Surah 4 : Ayat 34 -"Men are the protectors of maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other and because they spend to support them from their means" ------ and all that follows after that ... 

My comment: My interpretation of the verse 4:34 

http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-be-or-not-to-be-equal-comments-on.html 

http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-spankbeat-wives-is-not-crime.html 

AZ: What you say is correct and what I said is also correct. No where have I used the word 'inferior'. Please understand that Allah has assigned different duties for both which you have rightly mentioned too. In the eyes of Allah both are equal in deeds. A good act will receive the same reward for both; and an evil act will be punished accordingly for both. Since you go into details of a woman's position, being a women, can you answer one question- why did Allah not appoint woman as a Prophet. Why are all the Prophets  men and not a single woman? Why are two witnesses  required  from women as against only one from men in matters that requires witnesses ? 

My response: Thank you for agreeing with my interpretation. Yes, you did not use the word inferior - I had posted these on my blog in 2008 in response to someone else's post in a different list. Since it was relevant to your email, therefore I shared the links with you. 

Yes, I agree, all men and women are equal in terms of deeds and consequent rewards in the Hereafter, as clearly indicated in several verses: http://quran.com/4/124 , http://quran.com/16/97 , http://quran.com/33/35 , http://quran.com/40/40 , http://quran.com/47/19 , http://quran.com/48/5 , http://quran.com/57/12 , http://quran.com/57/18 and http://quran.com/85/10 

As regards the questions you have posed: 

a) why did Allah not appoint woman as a Prophet. Why are all the Prophets  men and not a single woman?  

Answer) I think, Allah knows best, that as the most precious job of the continuity of human kind (child bearing) has been assigned to women, thus women have not been overloaded with any other responsibility. Also, in the Quran chapter 66, where Allah is specifically giving example of believers and disbelievers, Allah chooses to present the example of women in both cases; the two exemplary believers worthy of mention for their belief as examples for all believers are the wife of Pharaoh and Mary, daughter of Imran: http://quran.com/66/11-12 

This may also be of interest: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/06/mission-of-messengers.html 

b) Why are two witnesses  required  from women as against only one from men in matters that requires witnesses?

Answer) Number of witnesses have been prescribed for specific cases clearly described in the relevant verses: 

Two male witnesses or one male and two female witnesses are required only in cases where debts are contracted: http://quran.com/2/282 

In cases of zina, four witnesses are required for the case to be admissible to court: http://quran.com/24/4 If the person lodging the accusation is unable to produce four witnesses, the accuser is to be punished, and their testimony not accepted ever after. 

In cases where one spouse accuses the other spouse, the rules and requirements are equal: http://quran.com/24/6-10 

Further, as punishment for crimes are equal, be it murder [http://quran.com/2/178], theft [http://quran.com/5/38] or adultery [http://quran.com/24/2], therefore, I suppose, in cases other than those two specifically mentioned, male and female witnesses should be considered equal as per the nature of the crime and the witness' presence at the scene. 

And Allah knows best. 

AZ: I am glad that you say Allah knows best.

Two more questions before I give you Allah's decision.

1. Why is a woman not allowed to marry another man while husband is alive and living with her, whereas a man is allowed to marry a second wife while his first wife is alive and staying with

him - that too without any need to take any sort of permission from the first wife ?

2. Why when a man dies his wealth and properties are not equally divided between his children - son gets more than the daughter.

Why? Why?  

My response: 

1. Why is a woman not allowed to marry another man while husband is alive and living with her, whereas a man is allowed to marry a second wife while his first wife is alive and staying with him - that too without any need to take any sort of permission from the first wife ?

Answer) Lineage. 

Also, note that according to the verses 4:2,3,127 of Surah Nisa, conditional polygamy is permitted to provide for the care of orphans, and 4:3 emphasises that only one is better. For explanation, please see: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/conditional-polygamy-permitted-in-islam.html 

I do not know whether permission is or not required. 

2. Why when a man dies his wealth and properties are not equally divided between his children - son gets more than the daughter. Why? Why? 

Answer) A woman is not required to spend from her personal wealth on anyone, including her own self. Since male members of the family are required to spend on the entire family's maintenance, therefore their need for it is greater. Therefore, since women do not have to spend, whatever they inherit is still greater than the male members share, even though it appears to be less. 

And Allah knows best! 

AZ: Yes, of course Allah knows the best. Allah knows the best in every matter - including relations  between men and women= "Men are the protectors and   maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend to support them from their means-------------------------------"

You Mashallah can read the Quran so I don't have to quote the whole Verse Ayat 34 of Surah 4.

In sha Allah & Ma sha Allah

Sb opined: Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah, Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know!  

My responses: And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence. 

Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God.  

Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is determined and decreed by God. This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and the decision is always as the designer designed it. 

I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All Praise and Thanks to God] 

Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$yA#(5:48:31) 

In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24

Victim-blaming?

In response to the following statement about the Hereafter: 'If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence.', L objected thus: That is known as "victim blaming". It's the psychology of a sadist - the same as the rapist's "she was asking for it". 

My response: That's a horrible analogy! 

Consider the following verses: 

http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally.

http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will return. 

http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know. Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path? And to Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. And the command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even nearer. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. 

L responded: It isn't an analogy, it's a fact of human psychology. Clearly people have projected their own nature onto a supposed supreme being, making the supreme being out to be some sort of emotionally crippled sadist. I refuse to give credence to a God that intends to torture anyone who doesn't believe in it for eternity, and I suggest you consider that with an open mind yourself. Clearly people wrote those particular lines from your allegedly divine text in order to control other people, and the same is true of the Bible and any other holy writ that uses crude threats to force other people to obey an elite group (such as priests).  

S asked: Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'.

My response: If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. 

L objected: "No compulsion" when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. "But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine." I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis.

If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. "Now look what you made me do!" he says as he tortures you.

My response: God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there will be no injustice done to anybody. 

The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth. 

S stated: The point is, if there's not enough evidence for a rational, impartial person to believe something, it is morally wrong to punish them for not believing it. For example, if the government passes a law and keeps it secret, allowing only easily dismissed rumours of it to get out, it is morally wrong to then reveal the law and punish people who didn't obey it. Note that this has nothing to do with whether the belief is good or bad - only if it is true. I could say that the Quran is a wonderful document, but unfortunately there is insufficient evidence that it is true; or alternatively, that it is an evil document, but unfortunately the evidence suggests that it is true.

My response: Which is why I suggest that those who understand science should evaluate the Quranic statements about nature to examine if the author knows what he is talking about. 

As per my understanding, nobody is being asked for irrational belief. There is enough evidence in nature for any keen mind to know that their must be a creator behind all this, enough evidence from history to know that there cannot be more than one master-king, otherwise everything would be in chaos, and multiple messengers, prophets and scriptures have been sent for guidance. 

Irrespective of the behaviour and actions of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, people of any faith or the lack of it, we must remember that each one of us will be judged individually and rewarded according to our beliefs and actions, taking into account all our limitations and all our efforts. There will be no injustice!   

The Last Trump

L, an atheist/agnostic sent an email titled: Samiya proved right. The email contained the following message and link:

Apparently the Last Trump is being heard around the world...

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-is-causing-the-strange-trumpet-sounds-in-the-sky-all-over-the-world 

My response: The Quran speaks of one single blast which will kill and destroy everything, and another which will cause resurrection. When that is to occur, only God has knowledge of it. However, we have been informed that it is approaching closer and closer. 

The article you quoted has Biblical quotes. That all scriptures are sent from God is an article of faith for us. However, its better that I leave it to someone else who has studied the Bible in depth to comment upon the end-of-times signs in it.  

As regards HAARP, etc, my understanding is that humans will transgress all reasonable bounds to toy with Creation, and try to corrupt the planet and bring harm to it and all who dwell upon it. In the past, many mighty yet criminal nations were warned: when they refused to heed the warnings of the messengers, even though the signs became clear to them, they were then destroyed for their crimes. Scriptures and mythology have many references and legends, and there are many ruins to wonder at what might have been. 

I'm posting below some relevant verses/links for your perusal: 

http://quran.com/21/1 Their reckoning draweth nigh for mankind, while they turn away in heedlessness. 

http://quran.com/7/187 They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, "Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly." They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, "Its knowledge is only with Allah , but most of the people do not know." 

http://quran.com/39/68 And the trumpet is blown, and all who are in the heavens and all who are in the earth swoon away, save him whom Allah willeth. Then it is blown a second time, and behold them standing waiting! 

http://quran.com/36/48-52  And they say, "When is this promise, if you should be truthful?" They do not await except one blast which will seize them while they are disputing. And they will not be able [to give] any instruction, nor to their people can they return. And the Horn will be blown; and at once from the graves to their Lord they will hasten. They will say, "O woe to us! Who has raised us up from our sleeping place?" [The reply will be], "This is what the Most Merciful had promised, and the messengers told the truth." 

http://quran.com/101/1-5 The Calamity! What is the Calamity? Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Calamity is! A day wherein mankind will be as thickly-scattered moths And the mountains will become as carded wool. 

http://quran.com/99 When Earth is shaken with her (final) earthquake And Earth yieldeth up her burdens, And man saith: What aileth her? That day she will relate her chronicles, Because thy Lord inspireth her. That day mankind will issue forth in scattered groups to be shown their deeds. And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then, And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then.  

http://quran.com/30/30 So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created [all] people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know. 

http://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=trumpet 

L asked: That is of course true of all future events (but I expect mean the date is being moved forward?) 

My response: No, I don't think the date is being moved - it will happen at its designated time. I think it means that we humans are running out of time. We are here to work for a beautiful eternal future in the Gardens of the Hereafter. If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence. http://quran.com/21 and http://quran.com/103 may be of interest.  

L opined: To be fair most of those collapses are now well explained by archaeologists, generally in terms of what today seem relatively minor ecological catastrophes but at the time were sufficiently devastating that they brought down entire city-states. Of course in those days it was possible to move to a new spot and start again, hence the idea that civilisation is cyclic ... but I think to blame these events on divine intervention would require something other than the currently available evidence, which all seems to point to natural causes (at least if Ronald Wright is to be believed). Obviously these things get mythologised and turned into the wrath of God in retrospect, but that is just normal human nature at work - schadenfreude and all that.  

My response: History is mostly 'intelligent' 'educated' guesses at what may have been. The archaeologists may be right or they may be wrong. As I believe the scripture is from God, and as I take it literally, I believe that the ancient civilisations were far mightier and very advanced, perhaps even travelling to space or doing genetic experimentation. I know it sounds like sci-fi and I need to put together some research to back it up, but the more I study the Quran and look at world history and mythology, the more I'm convinced of it. The civilisations which were destroyed must have been transgressing, and corrupting and upsetting the balance in some terrible way to have earned such annihilation. I think that had God not destroyed them, they would have destroyed the planet and perhaps we would not be here today. 

Also note that according to the Quran, whenever such punishments were executed, entire nations were obliterated from the face of the Earth -- only the few who had believed the Messengers survived with him.  

Why would you expect the Divine intervention to appear through non-natural causes, when all nature is at God's command?  

L commented on the Quranic verses: Those mostly sound very similar to the Christian version ("the Last Trump" - in this case meaning trumpet, or a similar instrument). The ultimate wake-up call, which even returns the dead to life. Actually I'm surprised that the Quran's version IS so similar, although I suppose I shouldn't be - we now know that the Middle Eastern religions all have fairly similar origins, I think? Plus links to the Egyptian religion (Jesus=Osiris etc, IIRC) The Christian version involves the dead being resurrected physically, reagrdless of the manner of their death or whether they were buried, cremated, etc. This would cause the appearance of around 100 billion people (if the introduction to "2001" is to be believed). Approximately one for each star in the galaxy. (Maybe God will give each one a solar system of his or her own.)

My response: We believe that all Prophets and Messengers, starting from Adam till Muhammad preached the same message. 

Trinity keeps appearing throughout mythology while Monotheism is stressed across all scriptures. The Catholic Trinity seems rooted in the Egyptian Trinity. However, we believe that it is a corruption of the religion preached by Jesus, as he never claimed divinity for himself, nor did he ever do away with any law. 

We also believe that all humans since Adam will be resurrected and held accountable for their beliefs and actions. The Quran (http://quran.com/50/16-18) states that there are two angels with each human, who are constantly recording all deeds and that thing is somewhere in the neck (http://quran.com/17/13-15), and it is that record which is removed at death (http://quran.com/56/83-87). Moreover, it states that a perfect record is maintained of whatever happens to the body after death and it will all be recreated (http://quran.com/50/3-4).  

I believe we will eventually find out. Lets hope we are blessed with an Earth (planet with gardens) rather than the punishment in a burning ball of Fire. 

http://signsandscience.blogspot.ca/2014/10/creation.html 

http://signsandscience.blogspot.ca/2015/03/orientation-right-or-left.html 

http://signsandscience.blogspot.ca/2015/03/fuel-of-hell-humans-and-stones.html

 

Faith and its (mis)application

Related posts:

 The Mighty Ancients!

Mission of the Messengers

JM, a scientist and an agnostic who is 90+ years old, wrote: 

I was learning about Communism (30s and 50s) and I disliked it because of unjust cruelty against certain people. (Rakosi, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc.)

I was learning about Nazism (40s) and I dislliked  it because of unjust cruelty against certain people. (Hitler, Skin-Heads, Szalasi, etc.)

I am learning about Islam (10s) and I dislike it because of unjust cruelty against certain people. (IS and Saudi beheadings,  etc.)

In my studies I also learned about Catholicism and I disliked it becuase the unjust (dogmatic?) cruelty against certain people in the Inquisition etc. 

I learned about Judaism and disliked it because unjust cruelty against women. It also invoked the cruelty of anti-semites against themselves. 

I did not learn enough about Hinduism and Buddhism to dislike them, too. 

I dislike the "new slaverism" (=capitalism) and "new feudalism" (= global misunderstanding of what may be a democracy). 

My response: I wonder if you were studying the scriptures / ideologies as well? I get the impression that you were studying the human condition: the results of (mis)interpretations and (mis)applications of religions / ideologies and naturally being revolted by it! 

Throughout history, humans have pursued wealth, power, pleasures: desires which within moral limits are permissible and constructive for the evolution of society, yet humans have mostly transgressed all bounds and have caused much suffering. What humans don't seem to understand is that their actions are essentially self-destructive. According to my study of the scriptures, time and again, whenever human civilisations advanced to the point of self-destruction, the Most Compassionate, True God has intervened, first by sending His Messengers and His Scriptures to warn humans about their self-destructive actions, and then saving humanity by wiping out those criminals who were bent upon destroying the world.  

If, for a while, you can suspend the notion that we are the most advanced that humans have ever been, and the notion that God is a terrible, heartless person that people imagine; perhaps a (re)read of the scriptures will help you realise that God is indeed the Most Kind and Most Loving, and enable you to appreciate His Commandments as those which guide humans to protect themselves from harm, lead to better their condition and enable them to build a beautiful future!   

Our world is also advancing towards self-destruction, all in the name of progress, and we are setting humanity up for much harm and suffering. I believe that since the last Messenger (Mohammad) and the last Scripture (Quran) have arrived, now the time for humanity's 'brief stay' on Earth is coming towards its end. People of many faiths, including Muslims, are awaiting the arrival of the Anti-Christ / Beast. It is stated in the Quran: And when (is) fulfilled the word against them, We will bring forth for them a creature from the earth speaking to them, that the people were, of Our Signs, not certain. [http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/27/82/ ]

However, as each one of us is in pledge for our own beliefs and deeds, so there is still hope for salvation and eternal bliss! God promises to help and guide those who WILL faith and submit to God's guidance.