A pagan wrote: It is precisely because the spiritual laws attributed to god by various cultures is different, as obvious in their holy scriptures, that we must conceive God as having many different faces and voices for the many peoples and cultures to which he speaks. If God is not manifest in many human gods, then we must discuss which of these religions truly BELONGS to the one true God, and then we must discuss why so many false religions are permitted to exist by this single mighty creator God who can make a universe but can't prevent false gods from usurping his sovereignty on this single world. You cite Christianity and Islam. Which is the true religion? Why is the other false religion permitted to exist? Is the one true God unable to convey his truth to his creation in such a manner as to prevent such deceit and confusion, upon which so much human horror and misery has been based?
I believe there is one almighty creator God, without gender or humanity, incomprehensible to human intelligence, who is essentially good and loving, but is not perfect (because there must be some explanation for evil in the universe). I do not believe the imperfection of such deity is so severe as to permit false gods of all sorts while damning those of mankind who are deceived by them. This to me is only a reasonable assessment of the human predicament in our world.
My response: The following are some verses of the Holy Quran, Chapter 5 relevant to the points you've mentioned in your post below. For full text and reference to context, please follow this link:
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=5&translator=2
44 It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah.s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah.s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
45 We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.
48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
49 And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah.s purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.
50 Do they then seek after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than Allah.
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63 Why do not the rabbis and the doctors of Law forbid them from their (habit of) uttering sinful words and eating things forbidden? Evil indeed are their works.
64 The Jews say: "(Allah)'s hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.
65 If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss.
66 If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: but many of them follow a course that is evil.
67 O Messenger. proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.
68 Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.
69 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
70 We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them apostles, every time, there came to them an apostle with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay.
71 They thought there would be no trial (or punishment); so they became blind and deaf; yet Allah (in mercy) turned to them; yet again many of them became blind and deaf. But Allah sees well all that they do.
72 They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
73 They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
74 Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.
75 Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!
76 Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."
77 Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.
78 Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.
79 Nor did they (usually) forbid one another the iniquities which they committed: evil indeed were the deeds which they did.
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116 And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
117 "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
118 "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."
119 Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation, (the fulfilment of all desires).
120 To Allah doth belong the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is therein, and it is He Who hath power over all things.
Islam - Q&A: A selection of questions posed by friends and acquaintances and my answers to them, in the attempt to bring them closer to the beautiful religion of Islam. And the random thoughts n questions that keep sprouting in my mind. May Allah guide us all.
Saturday, December 25, 2010
Sabbath
Question: There are seven days in one week - even during the days of creation, By the way, MAY I KNOW WHAT DID ALLAH DO ON THE SEVENTH DAY OF CREATION ACCORDING THE HOLY QURAN? ... While there are 7 days in a week, the six days are given to man to do all his work, but the seventh day belongs to God that He called "My Sabbath. Ezekiel 20:12 - "Hallow My Sabbaths,and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God. Sabbath is not a holiday that you do your own pleasure, but it is a HOLY DAY.
Answer: We believe that the process of Creation took six periods/eras (7:54, 54:7, 50:38, 2:29). The word used in the Quran is ayyam which means days or periods of time, and He established Himself over His Throne. The word used is thumma which some translators translate as moreover and some as then. Also, we believe that God does not require rest (50:38), and also that He is ever-present, ever-watchful(7:7).
We believe that we should remember and celebrate the praises of God at all times and at all places, ideally being ever-conscious and ever-grateful for everything, as it is only just that we be filled with awe and wonder and offer thanks to the One who is the Creator and Sustainer of us all (7:10, 7:29). Again and again are we reminded to establish regular prayers(2:43 for instance).
We also believe that certain appointed times are for obligatory prayers(4:103) and Friday afternoon prayer is of special congregational significance(62:9). I have copied the entire Chapter 62 (verses 1-11) for your reference. Please note that God first reminds us of the Jews (verses 5-8) and then enjoins Friday congregational prayer in verse 9.
As for sabbath, we are told that it was prescribed only for those who differed concerning it (16:124), and that it was taken as a fim covenant (4:154).
The following is the translation of a few relevant verses:
50:38 We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.
7:54 Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!
Holy Quran, Chapter 57 Verse 4 (you can compare the translations of the words ayyam and thumma)
Transliteration: Huwa allathee khalaqa alssamawati waalarda fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi yaAAlamu ma yaliju fee alardi wama yakhruju minha wama yanzilu mina alssamai wama yaAAruju feeha wahuwa maAAakum ayna ma kuntum waAllahu bima taAAmaloona baseerun
Yusuf Ali 4: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
Shakir 4: He it is who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, and He is firm in power; He knows that which goes deep down into the earth and that which comes forth out of it, and that which comes down from the heaven and that which goes up into it, and He is with you wherever you are; and Allah sees what you do.
Pickthal 4: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days; then He mounted the Throne. He knoweth all that entereth the earth and all that emergeth therefrom and all that cometh down from the sky and all that ascendeth therein; and He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah is Seer of what ye do.
Mohsin Khan: 4: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then rose over (Istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). He knows what goes into the earth and what comes forth from it, and what descends from the heaven and what ascends thereto. And He is with you (by His Knowledge) wheresoever you may be. And Allah is the All-Seer of what you do.
7:7 And verily, We shall recount their whole story with knowledge, for We were never absent (at any time or place).
2:29 It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
7:10 It is We Who have placed you with authority on earth, and provided you therein with means for the fulfilment of your life: small are the thanks that ye give!
7:29 Say: "My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in His sight: such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return."
2:43 And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).
Chapter 62 (Jumma [meaning Friday, the Congregation])
1 Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare the Praises and Glory of Allah,- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
2 It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;-
3 As well as (to confer all these benefits upon) others of them, who have not already joined them: And He is exalted in Might, Wise.
4 Such is the Bounty of Allah, which He bestows on whom He will: and Allah is the Lord of the highest bounty.
5 The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah. and Allah guides not people who do wrong.
6 Say: "O ye that stand on Judaism! If ye think that ye are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if ye are truthful!"
7 But never will they express their desire (for Death), because of the (deeds) their hands have sent on before them! and Allah knows well those that do wrong!
8 Say: "The Death from which ye flee will truly overtake you: then will ye be sent back to the Knower of things secret and open: and He will tell you (the truth of) the things that ye did!"
9 O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!
10 And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah. and celebrate the Praises of Allah often (and without stint): that ye may prosper.
11 But when they see some bargain or some amusement, they disperse headlong to it, and leave thee standing. Say: "The (blessing) from the Presence of Allah is better than any amusement or bargain! and Allah is the Best to provide (for all needs)."
16:124 The sabbath was appointed only for those who differed concerning it, and lo! thy Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they used to differ.
4:154 And We caused the Mount to tower above them at (the taking of) their covenant: and We bade them: Enter the gate, prostrate! and We bode them: Transgress not the sabbath! and We took from them a firm covenant.
Answer: We believe that the process of Creation took six periods/eras (7:54, 54:7, 50:38, 2:29). The word used in the Quran is ayyam which means days or periods of time, and He established Himself over His Throne. The word used is thumma which some translators translate as moreover and some as then. Also, we believe that God does not require rest (50:38), and also that He is ever-present, ever-watchful(7:7).
We believe that we should remember and celebrate the praises of God at all times and at all places, ideally being ever-conscious and ever-grateful for everything, as it is only just that we be filled with awe and wonder and offer thanks to the One who is the Creator and Sustainer of us all (7:10, 7:29). Again and again are we reminded to establish regular prayers(2:43 for instance).
We also believe that certain appointed times are for obligatory prayers(4:103) and Friday afternoon prayer is of special congregational significance(62:9). I have copied the entire Chapter 62 (verses 1-11) for your reference. Please note that God first reminds us of the Jews (verses 5-8) and then enjoins Friday congregational prayer in verse 9.
As for sabbath, we are told that it was prescribed only for those who differed concerning it (16:124), and that it was taken as a fim covenant (4:154).
The following is the translation of a few relevant verses:
50:38 We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.
7:54 Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!
Holy Quran, Chapter 57 Verse 4 (you can compare the translations of the words ayyam and thumma)
Transliteration: Huwa allathee khalaqa alssamawati waalarda fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi yaAAlamu ma yaliju fee alardi wama yakhruju minha wama yanzilu mina alssamai wama yaAAruju feeha wahuwa maAAakum ayna ma kuntum waAllahu bima taAAmaloona baseerun
Yusuf Ali 4: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
Shakir 4: He it is who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, and He is firm in power; He knows that which goes deep down into the earth and that which comes forth out of it, and that which comes down from the heaven and that which goes up into it, and He is with you wherever you are; and Allah sees what you do.
Pickthal 4: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days; then He mounted the Throne. He knoweth all that entereth the earth and all that emergeth therefrom and all that cometh down from the sky and all that ascendeth therein; and He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah is Seer of what ye do.
Mohsin Khan: 4: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then rose over (Istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). He knows what goes into the earth and what comes forth from it, and what descends from the heaven and what ascends thereto. And He is with you (by His Knowledge) wheresoever you may be. And Allah is the All-Seer of what you do.
7:7 And verily, We shall recount their whole story with knowledge, for We were never absent (at any time or place).
2:29 It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
7:10 It is We Who have placed you with authority on earth, and provided you therein with means for the fulfilment of your life: small are the thanks that ye give!
7:29 Say: "My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in His sight: such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return."
2:43 And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).
Chapter 62 (Jumma [meaning Friday, the Congregation])
1 Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare the Praises and Glory of Allah,- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
2 It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered an apostle from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;-
3 As well as (to confer all these benefits upon) others of them, who have not already joined them: And He is exalted in Might, Wise.
4 Such is the Bounty of Allah, which He bestows on whom He will: and Allah is the Lord of the highest bounty.
5 The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah. and Allah guides not people who do wrong.
6 Say: "O ye that stand on Judaism! If ye think that ye are friends to Allah, to the exclusion of (other) men, then express your desire for Death, if ye are truthful!"
7 But never will they express their desire (for Death), because of the (deeds) their hands have sent on before them! and Allah knows well those that do wrong!
8 Say: "The Death from which ye flee will truly overtake you: then will ye be sent back to the Knower of things secret and open: and He will tell you (the truth of) the things that ye did!"
9 O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!
10 And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah. and celebrate the Praises of Allah often (and without stint): that ye may prosper.
11 But when they see some bargain or some amusement, they disperse headlong to it, and leave thee standing. Say: "The (blessing) from the Presence of Allah is better than any amusement or bargain! and Allah is the Best to provide (for all needs)."
16:124 The sabbath was appointed only for those who differed concerning it, and lo! thy Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they used to differ.
4:154 And We caused the Mount to tower above them at (the taking of) their covenant: and We bade them: Enter the gate, prostrate! and We bode them: Transgress not the sabbath! and We took from them a firm covenant.
Tuesday, November 23, 2010
Humans: God's viceroy or Earth's viceroy?
In response to a debate between a muslim and a non-muslim over man being God's viceroy:
If I understand correctly, man is not God's viceroy, but rather Earth's viceroy. God does not need a representative on Earth, but we humans are evidently in charge of the Earth, harnessing its energy and resources, and shaping its environment. We have a certain degree of power over how we use it... responsibly or otherwise, and global warming is a witness to our collective irresponsibilty, as are the so many species of plants and animals becoming extinct.
Consider the following verses together:
Ch2:30 And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.
Ch6:165 He it is Who hath placed you as viceroys of the earth and hath exalted some of you in rank above others, that He may try you by (the test of) that which He hath given you. Lo! Thy Lord is swift in prosecution, and Lo! He verily is Forgiving, Merciful.
Ch7:69 Marvel ye that there should come unto you a Reminder from your Lord by means of a man among you, that he may warn you? Remember how He made you viceroys after Noah's folk, and gave you growth of stature. Remember (all) the bounties of your Lord, that haply ye may be successful.
Ch7:74 And remember how He made you viceroys after A'ad and gave you station in the earth. Ye choose castles in the plains and hew the mountains into dwellings. So remember (all) the bounties of Allah and do not evil, making mischief in the earth.
Ch7:129 They said: We suffered hurt before thou camest unto us, and since thou hast come unto us. He said: It may be that your Lord is going to destroy your adversary and make you viceroys in the earth, that He may see how ye behave.
Ch10:14 Then We appointed you viceroys in the earth after them, that We might see how ye behave.
Ch10:73 But they denied him, so We saved him and those with him in the ship, and made them viceroys (in the earth), while We drowned those who denied Our revelations. See then the nature of the consequence for those who had been warned.
Ch27:62 Is not He (best) Who answereth the wronged one when he crieth unto Him and removeth the evil, and hath made you viceroys of the earth? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Little do they reflect!
Ch38:26 (And it was said unto him): O David! Lo! We have set thee as a viceroy in the earth; therefor judge aright between mankind, and follow not desire that it beguile thee from the way of Allah. Lo! those who wander from the way of Allah have an awful doom, forasmuch as they forgot the Day of Reckoning.
Ch43:60 And had We willed We could have set among you angels to be viceroys in the earth.
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=viceroy&chapter=&translator=4&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
If I understand correctly, man is not God's viceroy, but rather Earth's viceroy. God does not need a representative on Earth, but we humans are evidently in charge of the Earth, harnessing its energy and resources, and shaping its environment. We have a certain degree of power over how we use it... responsibly or otherwise, and global warming is a witness to our collective irresponsibilty, as are the so many species of plants and animals becoming extinct.
Consider the following verses together:
Ch2:30 And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.
Ch6:165 He it is Who hath placed you as viceroys of the earth and hath exalted some of you in rank above others, that He may try you by (the test of) that which He hath given you. Lo! Thy Lord is swift in prosecution, and Lo! He verily is Forgiving, Merciful.
Ch7:69 Marvel ye that there should come unto you a Reminder from your Lord by means of a man among you, that he may warn you? Remember how He made you viceroys after Noah's folk, and gave you growth of stature. Remember (all) the bounties of your Lord, that haply ye may be successful.
Ch7:74 And remember how He made you viceroys after A'ad and gave you station in the earth. Ye choose castles in the plains and hew the mountains into dwellings. So remember (all) the bounties of Allah and do not evil, making mischief in the earth.
Ch7:129 They said: We suffered hurt before thou camest unto us, and since thou hast come unto us. He said: It may be that your Lord is going to destroy your adversary and make you viceroys in the earth, that He may see how ye behave.
Ch10:14 Then We appointed you viceroys in the earth after them, that We might see how ye behave.
Ch10:73 But they denied him, so We saved him and those with him in the ship, and made them viceroys (in the earth), while We drowned those who denied Our revelations. See then the nature of the consequence for those who had been warned.
Ch27:62 Is not He (best) Who answereth the wronged one when he crieth unto Him and removeth the evil, and hath made you viceroys of the earth? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Little do they reflect!
Ch38:26 (And it was said unto him): O David! Lo! We have set thee as a viceroy in the earth; therefor judge aright between mankind, and follow not desire that it beguile thee from the way of Allah. Lo! those who wander from the way of Allah have an awful doom, forasmuch as they forgot the Day of Reckoning.
Ch43:60 And had We willed We could have set among you angels to be viceroys in the earth.
http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=viceroy&chapter=&translator=4&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
Suicide Bombing
In response to certain comments and questions about suicide bombing:
There are many forces who try to create mischief and use people to achieve their objectives. Yet, no individual can absolve him/herself from personal responsibility for his/her own actions. We are all responsible for making our own choices.
Having said that, please bear in mind that though suicide bombing is done in the name of Islam, it is not sanctioned by Islam due to the following reasons:
-life is sacred
-innocent lives cannot be taken even in war
-suicide is not permissible
-holy war can only be declared by the ruler of the muslim state... small groups cannot take the law in their hands
People and groups who indulge in such extreme actions may think that they are doing God's work, but they are not. Most scholars agree that terrorism is not permitted in Islam in any way and under any conditions.
The following are some verses from the Holy Quran
(I have added the translator's name, chapter number and verse number at the begining of the verses for your convenience)
Yusuf Ali 5:8: O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
Yusuf Ali 4:29,30: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful! If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.
Yusuf Ali 4:59: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
Yusuf Ali 4:135 O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well- acquainted with all that ye do.
Yusuf Ali 17:33: Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).
Yusuf Ali Ch42, Verses 37-43
37 Those who avoid the greater crimes and shameful deeds, and, when they are angry even then forgive;
38 Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance;
39 And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) help and defend themselves.
40 The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah. for ((Allah)) loveth not those who do wrong.
41 But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame.
42 The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous.
43 But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs.
Yusuf Ali 5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
Yusuf Ali 16:125-128 Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.
And if ye do catch them out, catch them out no worse than they catch you out: But if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient. And do thou be patient, for thy patience is but from Allah. nor grieve over them: and distress not thyself because of their plots.
For Allah is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good.
Yusuf Ali 41:34-36 Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!
And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,- none but persons of the greatest good fortune.
And if (at any time) an incitement to discord is made to thee by the Evil One, seek refuge in Allah. He is the One Who hears and knows all things.
[All verses by different translators, and in multiple languages available at www.searchtruth.com ]
The example of the Holy Prophet Muhammad is also a guiding light. He faced much resistance, oppression and wars from his opponents. His patience, restraint, forbearance, courage, fairness and forgiveness are lessons for us.
A back-dated letter by Dr Khalid Zaheer to Hamas
http://khalidzaheer.com/essays/kzaheer/criticism/a_letter_to_hamas.html
There are many forces who try to create mischief and use people to achieve their objectives. Yet, no individual can absolve him/herself from personal responsibility for his/her own actions. We are all responsible for making our own choices.
Having said that, please bear in mind that though suicide bombing is done in the name of Islam, it is not sanctioned by Islam due to the following reasons:
-life is sacred
-innocent lives cannot be taken even in war
-suicide is not permissible
-holy war can only be declared by the ruler of the muslim state... small groups cannot take the law in their hands
People and groups who indulge in such extreme actions may think that they are doing God's work, but they are not. Most scholars agree that terrorism is not permitted in Islam in any way and under any conditions.
The following are some verses from the Holy Quran
(I have added the translator's name, chapter number and verse number at the begining of the verses for your convenience)
Yusuf Ali 5:8: O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
Yusuf Ali 4:29,30: O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful! If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.
Yusuf Ali 4:59: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
Yusuf Ali 4:135 O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well- acquainted with all that ye do.
Yusuf Ali 17:33: Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).
Yusuf Ali Ch42, Verses 37-43
37 Those who avoid the greater crimes and shameful deeds, and, when they are angry even then forgive;
38 Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance;
39 And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) help and defend themselves.
40 The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah. for ((Allah)) loveth not those who do wrong.
41 But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame.
42 The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous.
43 But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs.
Yusuf Ali 5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
Yusuf Ali 16:125-128 Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.
And if ye do catch them out, catch them out no worse than they catch you out: But if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient. And do thou be patient, for thy patience is but from Allah. nor grieve over them: and distress not thyself because of their plots.
For Allah is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good.
Yusuf Ali 41:34-36 Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!
And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,- none but persons of the greatest good fortune.
And if (at any time) an incitement to discord is made to thee by the Evil One, seek refuge in Allah. He is the One Who hears and knows all things.
[All verses by different translators, and in multiple languages available at www.searchtruth.com ]
The example of the Holy Prophet Muhammad is also a guiding light. He faced much resistance, oppression and wars from his opponents. His patience, restraint, forbearance, courage, fairness and forgiveness are lessons for us.
A back-dated letter by Dr Khalid Zaheer to Hamas
http://khalidzaheer.com/essays/kzaheer/criticism/a_letter_to_hamas.html
Thursday, September 30, 2010
Splitting of the Nile
Someone shared this news about a scientific study on winds parting water: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68K33520100921
My response: Glory to God
Finally, science is coming round to proving that what is written in the scriptures is actually possible. Wonder why people feel science and religion are incompatible? Coming from the same person (God), they must complement each other, or so I think :)
Thanks for sharing,
Research Article: Dynamics of Wind Setdown at Suez and the Eastern Nile Delta
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0012481
My response: Glory to God
Finally, science is coming round to proving that what is written in the scriptures is actually possible. Wonder why people feel science and religion are incompatible? Coming from the same person (God), they must complement each other, or so I think :)
Thanks for sharing,
Research Article: Dynamics of Wind Setdown at Suez and the Eastern Nile Delta
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0012481
Hawking, Big Bang, God, Multiverse, M-theory
I posted this article Stephen Hawking, the Big Bang, and God by Henry F. Schaefer III upon which the following discussion commenced
AK wrote: I haven't read the article yet but it seems to rebuttal the new book by Stephen Hawking.
I'm wondering would it actually help to share our comments or have a discussion? Has any such discussion ever changed ones mind? We tend to read what we feel (believe) to read and stick to our version of truth. I know I'm being pessimistic. But thats how I feel sometime :)
Does anyone else here feel the same way?
SI wrote: I personally feel that discussions are enriching as we can look at the same thing from different angles. As none of us mortals can be absolutely sure we're 100% right, all arguments are plausible in our search for truth. Perhaps we all have certain pieces of the jigsaw puzzle...
AK wrote: I like the way you put it :)
Yes I believe we all have certain pieces of jigsaw puzzle but we like to think we have got the complete puzzle... thus the conflict :)
As for the book (The Grand Design), it can be downloaded from the following link:
http://atheistmovies.blogspot.com/2010/09/grand-design-stephen-hawking-leonard.html
SI wrote: Thanks for the link.
And yes, we should carry on our discussions. Every debate forces us to think deeper and adds a new dimension to our understanding. Carry on...
Aj posted: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727780.301-mtheory-doubts-linger-over-godless-multiverse.html
SI wrote: Hawking says "God may exist but science can explain the universe without the need for a creator". I have yet to read his book though.
In my opinion, M-theory or any other science does not set out to prove or disprove the the existence of God. It rather attempts to explain nature as best as it can. If the Creator has made a perfect set of laws, a perfectly automated system, then why not? I mean we don't need to invoke God to explain physical phenomena. But, it is up to the individual whether we accept it all happened / evolved on its own, or whether there is a Creator behind it.
http://larrykinglive.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/09/sneak-peek-stephen-hawking/
Aj wrote: Generally, non atheists are asked to prove the existence of God. It is seldom that non atheists ask those atheists who rely heavily on science -- to prove that God does not exist. It is a bit disturbing and sad to see that even after passing of millions of years, science is unable to decide.
Whether the proof can be given (either way) is another matter. But putting the onus in the other direction is also warranted.
Frankly, I didnt expect Hawkings to say God may exist. His saying that may mean two things. First, there is no conflict between religion and science. Second, science may never be able to prove/disprove existence of God.
SI wrote: I think he meant both :)
AK wrote: I honestly think the onus of prove lies with people who believe in (unseen) God. Let me explain you with an example... if I claim today that I've got supernatural powers and you have to believe me, I have to prove it to you... otherwise you are least bothered about my claims. You dont need to disprove me, unless it has any impact on your life. You might leave me to believe whatever I want to believe or ask me for evidence. It's that simple :)
Aj wrote: no, its not that simple.
who is claiming to have supernatural power here?
its relative.
those who believe in god, for them its normal to see nature as a product of god. And anyone claiming that universe is being maintained without a CPU is claiming something 'supernatural'. so let him prove....
AK wrote: Logically speaking... your argument that nature is the product of God and everything has to be maintained will put a BIG question mark on God too. That is... who created God and how it is being maintained??? These two aruguments are known as first-cause argument and argument by design.
We like to think that way cuz we have been told this from the childhood, over n over again such that it has been entrinched in our minds. That's why our minds are OK with the explaination that everything is created by God, but no one asks who created God?
By the way, I have absolutely no problem with whether someone believe in God or not as it's not affecting me. But if someone tries to convince me then I have every right to ask him for proof. That's why we had miracles, right???
On the contrary what atheists are doing... they are just telling us that guys your explainations/proofs are not valid from the logical point of view. That's it :)
AK wrote: Let’s imagine we’re sitting together having a relaxed, honest and open discussion about religion. On the table is a huge stack of white index cards and on each index card is one of thousands of different religions, gods, belief systems, along with arguments for believing in that particular religion or god. Maybe a card has a current religion, or maybe it has a older religion that no one believes in any more, or is largely forgotten. It doesn’t matter – the point is that they’re all here in this great big stack, except for the ones that you believe in – you religion’s not in this stack.
One at a time, I draw up a card and I read you the religion and god and arguments for why you should believe in it and you respond with the reasons you dismiss the arguments and why you don’t believe the religion or god, and I’ll write the responses down.
So we go through every argument ever made for every other religion, their gods, supposed holy books, witnesses, miracles, profits, saviors, prophecies, testimonies, answered prayers, faith claims, affects for good, archeological support; whatever the argument, we go through it. We note all your counter arguments and dismissals on the back on each card.
It won’t take long before we realize that there is a pattern. Your argument for dismissing one religion will likely be similar to a previous answer. We won’t need to write anything down any more – we can just refer back to a previous argument.
Once we get to the bottom of the stack, I take another card out of my pocket. This card has your religion and god on them, and all the arguments that you think support them. We go through that card and they are refuted referring back to arguments you made before, just as we did with all the previous cards.
The fact is that you’re an atheist in regards to thousands of other religions and gods. You already know everything there is to know about dismissing religious arguments. You’re an expert already. You rationally dismiss thousands of other religions or gods just like any atheist does. The difference is you don’t turn that critical side of your mind to your own beliefs.
This realization is all anyone needs to know to recognize their faith doesn’t stand up any more. It’s just question of how honest you can be with yourself.
This is pretty much sumed up in a quote by Stephen Roberts:
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
SI wrote: Let's do it. Perhaps that is what we need...
And, why I believe:
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/reading-scientific-and-mathematical.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/can-any-of-holy-scriptures-be-totally.html
AK wrote: I haven't read the article yet but it seems to rebuttal the new book by Stephen Hawking.
I'm wondering would it actually help to share our comments or have a discussion? Has any such discussion ever changed ones mind? We tend to read what we feel (believe) to read and stick to our version of truth. I know I'm being pessimistic. But thats how I feel sometime :)
Does anyone else here feel the same way?
SI wrote: I personally feel that discussions are enriching as we can look at the same thing from different angles. As none of us mortals can be absolutely sure we're 100% right, all arguments are plausible in our search for truth. Perhaps we all have certain pieces of the jigsaw puzzle...
AK wrote: I like the way you put it :)
Yes I believe we all have certain pieces of jigsaw puzzle but we like to think we have got the complete puzzle... thus the conflict :)
As for the book (The Grand Design), it can be downloaded from the following link:
http://atheistmovies.blogspot.com/2010/09/grand-design-stephen-hawking-leonard.html
SI wrote: Thanks for the link.
And yes, we should carry on our discussions. Every debate forces us to think deeper and adds a new dimension to our understanding. Carry on...
Aj posted: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727780.301-mtheory-doubts-linger-over-godless-multiverse.html
SI wrote: Hawking says "God may exist but science can explain the universe without the need for a creator". I have yet to read his book though.
In my opinion, M-theory or any other science does not set out to prove or disprove the the existence of God. It rather attempts to explain nature as best as it can. If the Creator has made a perfect set of laws, a perfectly automated system, then why not? I mean we don't need to invoke God to explain physical phenomena. But, it is up to the individual whether we accept it all happened / evolved on its own, or whether there is a Creator behind it.
http://larrykinglive.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/09/sneak-peek-stephen-hawking/
Aj wrote: Generally, non atheists are asked to prove the existence of God. It is seldom that non atheists ask those atheists who rely heavily on science -- to prove that God does not exist. It is a bit disturbing and sad to see that even after passing of millions of years, science is unable to decide.
Whether the proof can be given (either way) is another matter. But putting the onus in the other direction is also warranted.
Frankly, I didnt expect Hawkings to say God may exist. His saying that may mean two things. First, there is no conflict between religion and science. Second, science may never be able to prove/disprove existence of God.
SI wrote: I think he meant both :)
AK wrote: I honestly think the onus of prove lies with people who believe in (unseen) God. Let me explain you with an example... if I claim today that I've got supernatural powers and you have to believe me, I have to prove it to you... otherwise you are least bothered about my claims. You dont need to disprove me, unless it has any impact on your life. You might leave me to believe whatever I want to believe or ask me for evidence. It's that simple :)
Aj wrote: no, its not that simple.
who is claiming to have supernatural power here?
its relative.
those who believe in god, for them its normal to see nature as a product of god. And anyone claiming that universe is being maintained without a CPU is claiming something 'supernatural'. so let him prove....
AK wrote: Logically speaking... your argument that nature is the product of God and everything has to be maintained will put a BIG question mark on God too. That is... who created God and how it is being maintained??? These two aruguments are known as first-cause argument and argument by design.
We like to think that way cuz we have been told this from the childhood, over n over again such that it has been entrinched in our minds. That's why our minds are OK with the explaination that everything is created by God, but no one asks who created God?
By the way, I have absolutely no problem with whether someone believe in God or not as it's not affecting me. But if someone tries to convince me then I have every right to ask him for proof. That's why we had miracles, right???
On the contrary what atheists are doing... they are just telling us that guys your explainations/proofs are not valid from the logical point of view. That's it :)
AK wrote: Let’s imagine we’re sitting together having a relaxed, honest and open discussion about religion. On the table is a huge stack of white index cards and on each index card is one of thousands of different religions, gods, belief systems, along with arguments for believing in that particular religion or god. Maybe a card has a current religion, or maybe it has a older religion that no one believes in any more, or is largely forgotten. It doesn’t matter – the point is that they’re all here in this great big stack, except for the ones that you believe in – you religion’s not in this stack.
One at a time, I draw up a card and I read you the religion and god and arguments for why you should believe in it and you respond with the reasons you dismiss the arguments and why you don’t believe the religion or god, and I’ll write the responses down.
So we go through every argument ever made for every other religion, their gods, supposed holy books, witnesses, miracles, profits, saviors, prophecies, testimonies, answered prayers, faith claims, affects for good, archeological support; whatever the argument, we go through it. We note all your counter arguments and dismissals on the back on each card.
It won’t take long before we realize that there is a pattern. Your argument for dismissing one religion will likely be similar to a previous answer. We won’t need to write anything down any more – we can just refer back to a previous argument.
Once we get to the bottom of the stack, I take another card out of my pocket. This card has your religion and god on them, and all the arguments that you think support them. We go through that card and they are refuted referring back to arguments you made before, just as we did with all the previous cards.
The fact is that you’re an atheist in regards to thousands of other religions and gods. You already know everything there is to know about dismissing religious arguments. You’re an expert already. You rationally dismiss thousands of other religions or gods just like any atheist does. The difference is you don’t turn that critical side of your mind to your own beliefs.
This realization is all anyone needs to know to recognize their faith doesn’t stand up any more. It’s just question of how honest you can be with yourself.
This is pretty much sumed up in a quote by Stephen Roberts:
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
SI wrote: Let's do it. Perhaps that is what we need...
And, why I believe:
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/reading-scientific-and-mathematical.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/can-any-of-holy-scriptures-be-totally.html
Stoning to death
Question: Samiya, I beg to differ. The Quran (as well as the Bible) both prescribe STONING TO DEATH as a solution to certain undesirable behaviors. Just follow the links in that article that SHOW you the places in the Quran that prescribe this.
The question is not that scriptures prescribe barbaric behavior, but why do some cultures FOLLOW these barbaric behaviors and others don't. Jews and Christians have scripture support for stoning people to death but we don't hear of them do that any more. Why then do the Muslims still embrace this. And I will add that as this article pointed out we don't hear much or any from Muslims AGAINST this behavior. If there was a public uproar against this type of behavior in the MUSLIM community then I would see a movement toward change, but there is none that I have ever heard of.
My question is WHY? And why, Samiya, do you stick your head in the sand and ignore the fact that the Quran supports this behavior?
Answer: Quran DOES NOT prescribe stoning to death. All the sources quoted are from hadith compilation according to Bukhari. Hadith are historical compilation of oral traditions and stories and are subject to many human limitations. Records in it may be wrong or may be right, each has to be evaluated and cross-checked with the Quran.
Unfortunately, some people still think it is divine law. The reasons are:
-Lack of knowledge of the Quran
-Belief in Hadith books as divine source of guidance
-Illiteracy
-Feudal mindset
There was an era when muslims were highly educated and progressive and Islamic countries were the centre of learning. During those times, much of Europe was in its infamous Dark Ages and many terrible things were done in the name of religion. For various reasons, free thinking and enquiry came to a halt in Muslim countries, and along with sciences and other disciplines, religion also suffered and the door to development of fiqh and sharia work (interpretation of religious edicts to formulate laws consistent with divine guidance and the needs of the time) was also closed.
You, on the outside, find such things reprehensive. Imagine how difficult it is for a muslim to believe in such things and maintain faith. The religion of Islam has suffered much at the hands of those who have misrepresented religion and prevented people from studying and understanding the original texts and taking guidance from it.
As we muslim nations progress and develop our people, it is hoped that more open thought and objectivity will replace the old mindset and thus such practices will be eradited.
What is perhaps central to interfaith discussion is that we evaluate each religion for its merit/demerit based upon its core beliefs and book, rather than take the practices of certain groups and label that as the real religion.
My earlier response to a video posted:
Quran does not prescribe STONING TO DEATH though certain groups do think its a divine law, based upon other books.
I do not believe in those books, and the scholars I know also DO NOT BELIEVE it to be a divine law nor do they think that the Prophet would have ordered it.
The reason I do not believe it: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/which-hadith-should-we-follow.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/sects-in-islam.html
I had answered the issue of punishment for adultery earlier. The following are the links
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/shariah-law-and-flogging-as-form-of.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/09/punishment-for-adultery-according-to.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/theft-and-adultery.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-be-or-not-to-be-equal-comments-on.html
You may also find this of some interest: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/05/status-of-women-in-islam.html
The question is not that scriptures prescribe barbaric behavior, but why do some cultures FOLLOW these barbaric behaviors and others don't. Jews and Christians have scripture support for stoning people to death but we don't hear of them do that any more. Why then do the Muslims still embrace this. And I will add that as this article pointed out we don't hear much or any from Muslims AGAINST this behavior. If there was a public uproar against this type of behavior in the MUSLIM community then I would see a movement toward change, but there is none that I have ever heard of.
My question is WHY? And why, Samiya, do you stick your head in the sand and ignore the fact that the Quran supports this behavior?
Answer: Quran DOES NOT prescribe stoning to death. All the sources quoted are from hadith compilation according to Bukhari. Hadith are historical compilation of oral traditions and stories and are subject to many human limitations. Records in it may be wrong or may be right, each has to be evaluated and cross-checked with the Quran.
Unfortunately, some people still think it is divine law. The reasons are:
-Lack of knowledge of the Quran
-Belief in Hadith books as divine source of guidance
-Illiteracy
-Feudal mindset
There was an era when muslims were highly educated and progressive and Islamic countries were the centre of learning. During those times, much of Europe was in its infamous Dark Ages and many terrible things were done in the name of religion. For various reasons, free thinking and enquiry came to a halt in Muslim countries, and along with sciences and other disciplines, religion also suffered and the door to development of fiqh and sharia work (interpretation of religious edicts to formulate laws consistent with divine guidance and the needs of the time) was also closed.
You, on the outside, find such things reprehensive. Imagine how difficult it is for a muslim to believe in such things and maintain faith. The religion of Islam has suffered much at the hands of those who have misrepresented religion and prevented people from studying and understanding the original texts and taking guidance from it.
As we muslim nations progress and develop our people, it is hoped that more open thought and objectivity will replace the old mindset and thus such practices will be eradited.
What is perhaps central to interfaith discussion is that we evaluate each religion for its merit/demerit based upon its core beliefs and book, rather than take the practices of certain groups and label that as the real religion.
My earlier response to a video posted:
Quran does not prescribe STONING TO DEATH though certain groups do think its a divine law, based upon other books.
I do not believe in those books, and the scholars I know also DO NOT BELIEVE it to be a divine law nor do they think that the Prophet would have ordered it.
The reason I do not believe it: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/which-hadith-should-we-follow.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/sects-in-islam.html
I had answered the issue of punishment for adultery earlier. The following are the links
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/shariah-law-and-flogging-as-form-of.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/09/punishment-for-adultery-according-to.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/theft-and-adultery.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-be-or-not-to-be-equal-comments-on.html
You may also find this of some interest: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/05/status-of-women-in-islam.html
Polygamy
Question: There is one thing I find curious though moslems are allowed more then one wife. A Saudi can have four provided he can care for them. Just thinking to myself though isn't one plenty. Perhaps the discussion to turn to the possibility of an undercurrent of masochism in Islam.
Answer: As I understand from the Quran, conditional polygamy is allowed:
In Surah Nisaa, ayaat 2 & 3 read as follows(Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation)
"To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. "
The point to be noted here is that the permission for marriage is for the purpose of taking care of orphans.
As I understand it is:
1. We are ordered to take care of orphans.
2. If we are unable to take care of orphans, marriage is permitted (as one aalim explained, to the widowed mother* of those orphans), or may be extended broadly to include, to any woman with the purpose of help in taking care of those orphans.
3. And if marriage is not possible, use the help of your servants/staff/slaves to take care of the orphans.
May Allah guide us all.
* Also see Holy Quran 4:127 They ask thy instruction concerning the women say: Allah doth instruct you about them: And (remember) what hath been rehearsed unto you in the Book, concerning the orphans of women to whom ye give not the portions prescribed, and yet whom ye desire to marry, as also concerning the children who are weak and oppressed: that ye stand firm for justice to orphans. There is not a good deed which ye do, but Allah is well-acquainted therewith.
Yet, the general understanding seems to be that even though polygamy is not recommended, it is not prohibited either. Nevertheless, they all agree that sex is only allowed within the bounds of marriage and a man must take full responsibility to provide for and care for his family.
Answer: As I understand from the Quran, conditional polygamy is allowed:
In Surah Nisaa, ayaat 2 & 3 read as follows(Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation)
"To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. "
The point to be noted here is that the permission for marriage is for the purpose of taking care of orphans.
As I understand it is:
1. We are ordered to take care of orphans.
2. If we are unable to take care of orphans, marriage is permitted (as one aalim explained, to the widowed mother* of those orphans), or may be extended broadly to include, to any woman with the purpose of help in taking care of those orphans.
3. And if marriage is not possible, use the help of your servants/staff/slaves to take care of the orphans.
May Allah guide us all.
* Also see Holy Quran 4:127 They ask thy instruction concerning the women say: Allah doth instruct you about them: And (remember) what hath been rehearsed unto you in the Book, concerning the orphans of women to whom ye give not the portions prescribed, and yet whom ye desire to marry, as also concerning the children who are weak and oppressed: that ye stand firm for justice to orphans. There is not a good deed which ye do, but Allah is well-acquainted therewith.
Yet, the general understanding seems to be that even though polygamy is not recommended, it is not prohibited either. Nevertheless, they all agree that sex is only allowed within the bounds of marriage and a man must take full responsibility to provide for and care for his family.
Hadith
Question:If my recall is correct, there are over 40 volumes of hadith. how does one know which are inspired and which are not?
Answer: Difficult, if not impossible, indeed. Even the Sahih Hadith collection (that which scholars narrow down as the only reliable ones) contain contradictions.
The best thing to do is perhaps check it with the Quran, if it is consistent with the message, then its probably reliable.
I don't know... scholars do attach a lot of importance to it, as they say that it is compulsory to obey the Prophet. My position is that the Prophet brought the Quran and asked us to follow it. Why not concentrate on that? The breadth and scope of the Quran is quite extensive, and every re-read adds to understanding. Besides, if we can just folllow the edicts in it, won't we be following the Prophet as he was the ideal and exemplary follower of the Quran?
The Prophet Muhammad has been directed in the Quran to follow the 'hadith' of Prophet Abraham. There was no written record of that. I understand that the concept is to follow the essence of their purity of faith, worshipping solely the only God, and submitting willingly and completely. The Quran contains many broad guidelines and just following them would make anyone an ideal human being.
Moreover, we have been directed to not to try and make religion difficult. There are examples of the Bani Israel (Jews) in the Quran where they asked so many unneccessary questions that they made practice of their religion more and more difficult for themselves. If my religion is good and easy and based upon common sense and a healthy conscience, why complicate it? After all, religion is for all human beings in all sorts of situations all over the globe, not just for a privileged few.
May Allah guide me and correct me where I may be wrong,
Answer: Difficult, if not impossible, indeed. Even the Sahih Hadith collection (that which scholars narrow down as the only reliable ones) contain contradictions.
The best thing to do is perhaps check it with the Quran, if it is consistent with the message, then its probably reliable.
I don't know... scholars do attach a lot of importance to it, as they say that it is compulsory to obey the Prophet. My position is that the Prophet brought the Quran and asked us to follow it. Why not concentrate on that? The breadth and scope of the Quran is quite extensive, and every re-read adds to understanding. Besides, if we can just folllow the edicts in it, won't we be following the Prophet as he was the ideal and exemplary follower of the Quran?
The Prophet Muhammad has been directed in the Quran to follow the 'hadith' of Prophet Abraham. There was no written record of that. I understand that the concept is to follow the essence of their purity of faith, worshipping solely the only God, and submitting willingly and completely. The Quran contains many broad guidelines and just following them would make anyone an ideal human being.
Moreover, we have been directed to not to try and make religion difficult. There are examples of the Bani Israel (Jews) in the Quran where they asked so many unneccessary questions that they made practice of their religion more and more difficult for themselves. If my religion is good and easy and based upon common sense and a healthy conscience, why complicate it? After all, religion is for all human beings in all sorts of situations all over the globe, not just for a privileged few.
May Allah guide me and correct me where I may be wrong,
Friday, September 3, 2010
Actions speak louder than words
To my reply to Punishment for Adultery according to Quran, some one commented: "We dont need to listen to what moslems are saying because what they are doing speaks louder."
Answer: The only thing sure about life is that we'll meet death someday_ can we afford the luxury of just writing off religion on the basis of what others are doing or saying??
We all have 24 hours each day and we can either spend it criticizing others, and dismissing them, or use the time seeking knowledge and going to the source of all scriptures to discover the truth for ourselves.
I'm a born muslim, and I grew up in a society with many plusses and minusses. Religion and culture, poverty and charity, pride and humility, fanaticism and liberalism, and many other contradictory practices. I am glad that I was introduced to the Quran early on and could see that many practices were rooted more in culture than in religion, and somehow, the two were so inter-twined that many people were unaware of what was what, and social expediency also adding a further twist to it.
Another thing that bothered me was that I knew very little about other religions. Hence I started exploring what other religions were really all about. I'm glad that I discovered Study Circle and grateful to all those who shared their perspective of their religion and helped me think from different angles and understand better.
Reading the original texts of different religions has led me to believe that all stem from the same source, all have gems of wisdom, and all have been used as tools by certain people to oppress and exploit others. Thus, I do not base my beliefs on the practices of others. My beliefs are based upon what I honestly and sincerely consider to be the truth, based upon whatever little research that I'm able to do, and I pray that I be guided to truth. Amen.
Answer: The only thing sure about life is that we'll meet death someday_ can we afford the luxury of just writing off religion on the basis of what others are doing or saying??
We all have 24 hours each day and we can either spend it criticizing others, and dismissing them, or use the time seeking knowledge and going to the source of all scriptures to discover the truth for ourselves.
I'm a born muslim, and I grew up in a society with many plusses and minusses. Religion and culture, poverty and charity, pride and humility, fanaticism and liberalism, and many other contradictory practices. I am glad that I was introduced to the Quran early on and could see that many practices were rooted more in culture than in religion, and somehow, the two were so inter-twined that many people were unaware of what was what, and social expediency also adding a further twist to it.
Another thing that bothered me was that I knew very little about other religions. Hence I started exploring what other religions were really all about. I'm glad that I discovered Study Circle and grateful to all those who shared their perspective of their religion and helped me think from different angles and understand better.
Reading the original texts of different religions has led me to believe that all stem from the same source, all have gems of wisdom, and all have been used as tools by certain people to oppress and exploit others. Thus, I do not base my beliefs on the practices of others. My beliefs are based upon what I honestly and sincerely consider to be the truth, based upon whatever little research that I'm able to do, and I pray that I be guided to truth. Amen.
Thursday, September 2, 2010
Punishment for Adultery according to Quran
Question: Islam is merciful to men when it comes to adultry, but women they will be stoned to death like old jewish law, havent they heard it takes two to tangle?
Answer: Society is merciful to men as society is largely controlled by men, and laws and rules are bent to favour them. A study of all cultures, be they of whatever religion, throughout history, shows that humans tend to exploit all others whom they can dominate, sadly women being the weaker sex, also thus suffer.
According to the Quran, there is no death sentence for adultery. As for flogging, my understanding from the Quran (see below) is that Allah has indeed made it extremely difficult for anybody to accuse anybody else for adultery. To even admit the case in court you need atleast 4 witnesses, how is it possible to get 4 witnesses for such a thing? Then again, if the accusation is found to be false, the accuser is to be flogged with eighty stripes, and never again is his testimony to be accepted throughout his life! And if a person accuses his/her spouse of adultery, he/she is required to take oath 4 times that the accusation is true, and a fifth oath that if he/she is lying, may the wrath of Allah fall upon him/her.
Given the above conditions, it is indeed extremely difficult, if not impossible to launch such accusations. Also, I don’t see how except the openly promiscuous would suffer such a fate, and then again, after one or two such punishments, how many would be left in society who would dare do such a thing, especially openly?
Surah Noor ayat 1-10
1 A sura which We have sent down and which We have ordained in it have We sent down Clear Signs, in order that ye may receive admonition.
2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
3 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4 And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5 Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
7 And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
8 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
9 And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.
10 If it were not for Allah.s grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft- Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed).
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=24&translator=2
Answer: Society is merciful to men as society is largely controlled by men, and laws and rules are bent to favour them. A study of all cultures, be they of whatever religion, throughout history, shows that humans tend to exploit all others whom they can dominate, sadly women being the weaker sex, also thus suffer.
According to the Quran, there is no death sentence for adultery. As for flogging, my understanding from the Quran (see below) is that Allah has indeed made it extremely difficult for anybody to accuse anybody else for adultery. To even admit the case in court you need atleast 4 witnesses, how is it possible to get 4 witnesses for such a thing? Then again, if the accusation is found to be false, the accuser is to be flogged with eighty stripes, and never again is his testimony to be accepted throughout his life! And if a person accuses his/her spouse of adultery, he/she is required to take oath 4 times that the accusation is true, and a fifth oath that if he/she is lying, may the wrath of Allah fall upon him/her.
Given the above conditions, it is indeed extremely difficult, if not impossible to launch such accusations. Also, I don’t see how except the openly promiscuous would suffer such a fate, and then again, after one or two such punishments, how many would be left in society who would dare do such a thing, especially openly?
Surah Noor ayat 1-10
1 A sura which We have sent down and which We have ordained in it have We sent down Clear Signs, in order that ye may receive admonition.
2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
3 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
4 And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
5 Unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
6 And for those who launch a charge against their spouses, and have (in support) no evidence but their own,- their solitary evidence (can be received) if they bear witness four times (with an oath) by Allah that they are solemnly telling the truth;
7 And the fifth (oath) (should be) that they solemnly invoke the curse of Allah on themselves if they tell a lie.
8 But it would avert the punishment from the wife, if she bears witness four times (with an oath) By Allah, that (her husband) is telling a lie;
9 And the fifth (oath) should be that she solemnly invokes the wrath of Allah on herself if (her accuser) is telling the truth.
10 If it were not for Allah.s grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft- Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed).
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=24&translator=2
Saturday, August 21, 2010
Common root of most religions
In response to Religion and Control, someone posted: Well said, Samiya. But are not the writers of scriptures also 'leaders' and those who chose to follow the scriptures being followers?
Answer: Indeed, yet like in all things in our world, each has the potential for the good, for the bad, and for somewhere in between the spectrum.
I believe that the prophets were divinely inspired, bringing the same message, the scriptures were originally pure guidance from God, but later on, individuals in these groups decided that they were 'holier than thou', and sought control, establishing themselves as holy leaders [priest], morphing the message to suit their needs, and gullible people just went along and became their followers.
Nearly all major religions' original texts contain glimpses of the divine message of a single deity, piety, charity and love for all. Even hinduism's most sacred text, the Vedas, speaks of one God, of the grave sin of joining others in the worship of the One God, of sacrifice, of eating meat, etc. That the hindu religion as practiced today is of a pantheon of gods, worshipped and prayed to, appears totally contradictory to the message of the Vedas. I haven't read the holy book of the Zoroastrians, but when I visited the ruins of Persepolis, had I not known that this palace belonged to a Zoroastrian king, I would have thought that the proclamations engraved on the walls and pillars had an Islamic background, so similar it was to our beliefs and practices. Abraham and Moses preached of One God, the Torah of the Jews, contains the same message. The ten commandments resonate that common message. The Bible contains verses about the one and only God.
Have collected some web links below.
Regards,
Samiya
References:
Bible: http://www.submission.org/god-bible.html
Ten Commandments: http://submission.org/God/ten.html
Do Jews pray like Muslims: http://www.submission.org/jews.html
Zoroastrian faith: http://www.avesta.org/
Hindu faith and monotheism: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/onegod.asp
http://www.satyavidya.org/component/content/article/53-vedic-vitamins/126-there-is-only-one-god
Persepolis: http://www.persepolis3d.com/frameset.html
http://www.cais-soas.com/index.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCwxJsk14e4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIPHEb9lWXA
Persepolis Inscriptions: http://www.livius.org/pen-pg/persepolis/persepolis.html
Ka'abah of Zoroaster: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/12/kaabah-of-zoroaster.html
Answer: Indeed, yet like in all things in our world, each has the potential for the good, for the bad, and for somewhere in between the spectrum.
I believe that the prophets were divinely inspired, bringing the same message, the scriptures were originally pure guidance from God, but later on, individuals in these groups decided that they were 'holier than thou', and sought control, establishing themselves as holy leaders [priest], morphing the message to suit their needs, and gullible people just went along and became their followers.
Nearly all major religions' original texts contain glimpses of the divine message of a single deity, piety, charity and love for all. Even hinduism's most sacred text, the Vedas, speaks of one God, of the grave sin of joining others in the worship of the One God, of sacrifice, of eating meat, etc. That the hindu religion as practiced today is of a pantheon of gods, worshipped and prayed to, appears totally contradictory to the message of the Vedas. I haven't read the holy book of the Zoroastrians, but when I visited the ruins of Persepolis, had I not known that this palace belonged to a Zoroastrian king, I would have thought that the proclamations engraved on the walls and pillars had an Islamic background, so similar it was to our beliefs and practices. Abraham and Moses preached of One God, the Torah of the Jews, contains the same message. The ten commandments resonate that common message. The Bible contains verses about the one and only God.
Have collected some web links below.
Regards,
Samiya
References:
Bible: http://www.submission.org/god-bible.html
Ten Commandments: http://submission.org/God/ten.html
Do Jews pray like Muslims: http://www.submission.org/jews.html
Zoroastrian faith: http://www.avesta.org/
Hindu faith and monotheism: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/onegod.asp
http://www.satyavidya.org/component/content/article/53-vedic-vitamins/126-there-is-only-one-god
Persepolis: http://www.persepolis3d.com/frameset.html
http://www.cais-soas.com/index.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCwxJsk14e4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIPHEb9lWXA
Persepolis Inscriptions: http://www.livius.org/pen-pg/persepolis/persepolis.html
Ka'abah of Zoroaster: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/12/kaabah-of-zoroaster.html
Religion and Control
A comment about religion: religion provided both social, cultural and legal regulations to boot. man's greed has had to have societal constraints, as far back and before written history. religion just added another aspect of the controls over people as they gathered into early societies, the society being the basic form of protection against other men, wild creatures and things that go bump in the night. I still sprinkle salt all around my doors and windows, to keep out the roving wood willies that patter about in the dark of night!!!!!
My Response: Humans who are greedy, and seek to control, indulge in tyranny... they use all possible resources: political, economic, ideological to that end. Religion becomes yet another tool in the hands of these tyrants. We have been blessed with many things, and guidance is one of them. Some people then took on the role of the leaders [priests] of these religions, and others chose to become their followers. It is not the fault of guidance, the onus lies on those who seek to control and those who choose to follow.
My Response: Humans who are greedy, and seek to control, indulge in tyranny... they use all possible resources: political, economic, ideological to that end. Religion becomes yet another tool in the hands of these tyrants. We have been blessed with many things, and guidance is one of them. Some people then took on the role of the leaders [priests] of these religions, and others chose to become their followers. It is not the fault of guidance, the onus lies on those who seek to control and those who choose to follow.
What really matters?
Response to a longish post (added after my response) making a few points about fanaticism, Muslims and Islam
Answer:L, as is evident from what you've posted, fanaticism has more to do with the individual than with the religion. As long as we keep confusing the religion and the people, the eternal and the temporal, the divine and the human, we will continue this endless debate. Does it matter what kind of person a muslim, christian, jew, parsi, pagan, witch, hindu, atheist or whoever is? Does that in any way affect my eternity? If I am raised up after death, if there is to be a reckoning, will it really matter what others said or did? I will be responsible for my own beliefs and deeds as an individual. If my eternity depends on my beliefs, then I'd serve me best by sorting through the available texts and honestly trying to find the truth to the best of my abilities, faculties and resources. I cannot and shouldnot take my religion from the practice and philosophies of others. I must come to my own conclusions based upon the wealth of information provided to me by all those around me, from the written and the oral, the studied and the experienced, and critically evaluate, using my conscience and intelligence. Denying the hereafter based upon my wish not to be judged, blaming God for things we don't really understand or have full knowledge of, judging others and stereotyping them, won't really help me. My focus should be on the religion, not people. I'm mortal and so are others. We all bid our time and pass away... that seems to be about the only certain and common thing in our lives. We did not choose to be born, we did not choose which family, society and culture to be born and bred in, we did not choose to have to eventually die, hence we also will not have a choice in whether we want or not to be ressurected and judged, nor would we have a say about being granted eternal life. What I do know is that if I could be created first, I can be recreated again. My existence confirms that creation is possible, and genetics tells me DNA stores information. If humans can come up with so much science, don't you think the Creator has far superior methods of recording and preserving information? If Google can map the world, if satellites can see and record what goes on inside rooms, why can't I believe that God is aware of and recording all my thoughts, intentions and actions? If plants can grow from seeds, why can't I be grown back some day? There are so many signs in my immediate environment confirming the message of the scriptures, it would indeed be fulite and foolish to ignore them in the wish that it should not be so. God may not need me, but I certainly do need Him. He has blessed me with the Earth to dwell upon, he provides me with food to satiate my hunger, water to drench my thirst, air to breathe, people to care for and be cared by, colours in nature to brighten what my eyes look at, eyes and ears to look and hear, intellectual capacity to perceive and understand, and I would do poorly if He were to bless me with any less. I owe Him gratitude, and my heart thanks Him.
I've posted a few times explaining the islamic and muslim perspective of some of the issues raised in your post. Following are the links to some of them, in case you'd like to check them out.
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/11/muslims-science-and-nobel-prize.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/11/verses-regarding-war-holy-quran-ch-9.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/09/infinite-punishment-for-finite-act.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/01/on-god-delusion.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/03/holy-quran.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/03/comments-on-islam-muslims-terrorism-and.html
Post: What makes a fanatic tick?
It all boils down to one fundamental negative ( among the myriad) trait of human beings.. Jealousy/Envy. The Mexicans have a word for it.. envidia.. jealousy & envy all rolled into one & it is a despicable state of affairs (mind set). Jealousy is the fuel which oils & lubricates & keeps in motion the machinery of the muslim fanatic.
With a healthy, well balanced mind there is remorse & shame & guilty consciences... these are foreign concepts to the muslim fanatic & their lunatic craving for jihad..holy war.. For obvious reasons they will never admit to this fact so they usurp & distort religion to justify their treachery. It doesn't require rocket science to see that an all loving good "allah' would never command its 'children' to harm another. And of course with the west sticking it's nose in many muslim countries affairs the fanatic has even more of an excuse to attack the west. But if the west was entirely removed from muslim countries the hatred and attacks would not cease therefore pointing out the true reasons behind the fanatics stimulation.. envidia in the extreme. Are all muslims fanatics? Of course not but as you know one bad apple can spoil... Fact.. the majority of muslims are for all intense and purposes illiterate. They therefore are not educated as concerns the woof & warp of other countries. These people are gullible & most impressionable.
I do say however that "common sense" does not require an education. Why then the fanaticism? Well first off you've have those who do know whats what and are quite simply filled with envivia. Then you have those who've seen famil & friends die & are lead to believe the west was responsible.. these very ones who are living without purpose and in dire poverty.. This is the fertile ground where the real evil fanatics seek their recruit.. the lost & lonley, poor & grief stricken,.. they are ripe for hatred, thye are seeking someone, somthing to blame & the real fanatics know just which buttons to push. In addition as usual divide and conquer techniques enforced upon people just barely struggling to survive who live every minute in fear and being bombarded with false negative propaganda what hope is there of the ' truth' ever reaching these people when any truths that might per chance circulate are denounced as lies by the manipulators whom the people have ever reason to fear. All have seen whats happens to those who protest..The Truth? Whose truth? Facts I have actually seen are my truths..the elite in the muslim countries live lavishly...while they disseminate untruths to the people about the west.. that the west is their enemy.. that their dire unbearable existence is due to the activities of the west. This smoke screen is very effective especially to a people who can't afford the luxury of getting, in any way shape or form, to the truth of the matter, they whose only goal in life is getting enough to eat and getting thru this day alive..They haven't time for analyzation ferchrisakes! One of the sheep isn't going to round up the rest of the flock. The only efficacious activity that will accomplish some sort of honest, fair enlightenment is "EDUCATING" the people.. guns will never alter anything. But war is good business for the western munitions manufactures & the many who profit indirectly (trickle down effect) from the wars. I say your average run of the mill muslim could get along just fine with your average run of the mil westerner with out the power elite in both camps stirring up the hatred between the two with disinformation & a barrage of lies & dirty tricks. Then there is this thing religion... Unfortunately many henious acts since the beginning of time have been perpetuated in the name of religion. A few deceitful individuals/groups desire, for their own selfish ends, a particular scenario which will allow them to get/have their way. They use religion as the instrument to get their dirty work done. Saying to the people the koran says death to the unbeliever.. the koran says this or that.. anything to further the cause of the bully! The sheepish, uneducated, inexperienced, afraid people are helpless to believe anything else... To the delight of the few who would rule them. Divide & conqueor & brainswash & intimidate with fear... Sadam was only too well aware of these ever so efficacious tactics. Just as mentor/philosopher Machevalii said to his student prince's " do whatever you wish for there is only one in a million who will stand up against you". In all honesty so are the western leaders manipulating their sheep however their tactics are less brutal and much more subtle but nevertheless they employ underhanded tactics upon their subjects.. obviously a certain amount of control is necessary to ward of total chaos. Yes it is a tender balance & I prefer the western style
control over the muslim style. In the west the people, as can be proven, enjoy more freedom than exists in the muslim world. The women are not so brutally treated in the west as in the muslim world.. this is one of my biggest bones of contention. Why even the men in muslim societies who are brutally dominated exercise the same vicious tactics on "their" women.. yes "their" women.. Thus though they abhor the hand that punishes & holds them down & severly brutally restricts them they "HYPOCRITICALLY" are guility of the same vicious behavior towards their wives & children! Do unto to others as you would have them do unto you is a non existent concept! You can to some extent see a similiar behavior pattern in the west. Western Psychologists will tell you that children raised in abusive families often abuse their own children. The barbarian seed in the human runs deep. Somehow the west has evolved a less unfair, brutal outward civilization though the seeds are there perhaps somewhat dormant. Fear of reprisal is the only thing that restrains many westerners. The muslim world has no monopoly on brutality & unfairness..History is replete with human treachery.. It is the old struggle between good and evil.. which one will ultimately prevail. A people ultimately get the governance they deserve............... Sad but the guy in the street vehemently dislikes being bullied by his 'superiors' hoowever he does not want these ' bully' tactics outlawed lest he not be able to (git dis) " discipline " his own brood! And none dare call it treason!
Answer:L, as is evident from what you've posted, fanaticism has more to do with the individual than with the religion. As long as we keep confusing the religion and the people, the eternal and the temporal, the divine and the human, we will continue this endless debate. Does it matter what kind of person a muslim, christian, jew, parsi, pagan, witch, hindu, atheist or whoever is? Does that in any way affect my eternity? If I am raised up after death, if there is to be a reckoning, will it really matter what others said or did? I will be responsible for my own beliefs and deeds as an individual. If my eternity depends on my beliefs, then I'd serve me best by sorting through the available texts and honestly trying to find the truth to the best of my abilities, faculties and resources. I cannot and shouldnot take my religion from the practice and philosophies of others. I must come to my own conclusions based upon the wealth of information provided to me by all those around me, from the written and the oral, the studied and the experienced, and critically evaluate, using my conscience and intelligence. Denying the hereafter based upon my wish not to be judged, blaming God for things we don't really understand or have full knowledge of, judging others and stereotyping them, won't really help me. My focus should be on the religion, not people. I'm mortal and so are others. We all bid our time and pass away... that seems to be about the only certain and common thing in our lives. We did not choose to be born, we did not choose which family, society and culture to be born and bred in, we did not choose to have to eventually die, hence we also will not have a choice in whether we want or not to be ressurected and judged, nor would we have a say about being granted eternal life. What I do know is that if I could be created first, I can be recreated again. My existence confirms that creation is possible, and genetics tells me DNA stores information. If humans can come up with so much science, don't you think the Creator has far superior methods of recording and preserving information? If Google can map the world, if satellites can see and record what goes on inside rooms, why can't I believe that God is aware of and recording all my thoughts, intentions and actions? If plants can grow from seeds, why can't I be grown back some day? There are so many signs in my immediate environment confirming the message of the scriptures, it would indeed be fulite and foolish to ignore them in the wish that it should not be so. God may not need me, but I certainly do need Him. He has blessed me with the Earth to dwell upon, he provides me with food to satiate my hunger, water to drench my thirst, air to breathe, people to care for and be cared by, colours in nature to brighten what my eyes look at, eyes and ears to look and hear, intellectual capacity to perceive and understand, and I would do poorly if He were to bless me with any less. I owe Him gratitude, and my heart thanks Him.
I've posted a few times explaining the islamic and muslim perspective of some of the issues raised in your post. Following are the links to some of them, in case you'd like to check them out.
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/11/muslims-science-and-nobel-prize.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/11/verses-regarding-war-holy-quran-ch-9.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/09/infinite-punishment-for-finite-act.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/01/on-god-delusion.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/03/holy-quran.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/03/comments-on-islam-muslims-terrorism-and.html
Post: What makes a fanatic tick?
It all boils down to one fundamental negative ( among the myriad) trait of human beings.. Jealousy/Envy. The Mexicans have a word for it.. envidia.. jealousy & envy all rolled into one & it is a despicable state of affairs (mind set). Jealousy is the fuel which oils & lubricates & keeps in motion the machinery of the muslim fanatic.
With a healthy, well balanced mind there is remorse & shame & guilty consciences... these are foreign concepts to the muslim fanatic & their lunatic craving for jihad..holy war.. For obvious reasons they will never admit to this fact so they usurp & distort religion to justify their treachery. It doesn't require rocket science to see that an all loving good "allah' would never command its 'children' to harm another. And of course with the west sticking it's nose in many muslim countries affairs the fanatic has even more of an excuse to attack the west. But if the west was entirely removed from muslim countries the hatred and attacks would not cease therefore pointing out the true reasons behind the fanatics stimulation.. envidia in the extreme. Are all muslims fanatics? Of course not but as you know one bad apple can spoil... Fact.. the majority of muslims are for all intense and purposes illiterate. They therefore are not educated as concerns the woof & warp of other countries. These people are gullible & most impressionable.
I do say however that "common sense" does not require an education. Why then the fanaticism? Well first off you've have those who do know whats what and are quite simply filled with envivia. Then you have those who've seen famil & friends die & are lead to believe the west was responsible.. these very ones who are living without purpose and in dire poverty.. This is the fertile ground where the real evil fanatics seek their recruit.. the lost & lonley, poor & grief stricken,.. they are ripe for hatred, thye are seeking someone, somthing to blame & the real fanatics know just which buttons to push. In addition as usual divide and conquer techniques enforced upon people just barely struggling to survive who live every minute in fear and being bombarded with false negative propaganda what hope is there of the ' truth' ever reaching these people when any truths that might per chance circulate are denounced as lies by the manipulators whom the people have ever reason to fear. All have seen whats happens to those who protest..The Truth? Whose truth? Facts I have actually seen are my truths..the elite in the muslim countries live lavishly...while they disseminate untruths to the people about the west.. that the west is their enemy.. that their dire unbearable existence is due to the activities of the west. This smoke screen is very effective especially to a people who can't afford the luxury of getting, in any way shape or form, to the truth of the matter, they whose only goal in life is getting enough to eat and getting thru this day alive..They haven't time for analyzation ferchrisakes! One of the sheep isn't going to round up the rest of the flock. The only efficacious activity that will accomplish some sort of honest, fair enlightenment is "EDUCATING" the people.. guns will never alter anything. But war is good business for the western munitions manufactures & the many who profit indirectly (trickle down effect) from the wars. I say your average run of the mill muslim could get along just fine with your average run of the mil westerner with out the power elite in both camps stirring up the hatred between the two with disinformation & a barrage of lies & dirty tricks. Then there is this thing religion... Unfortunately many henious acts since the beginning of time have been perpetuated in the name of religion. A few deceitful individuals/groups desire, for their own selfish ends, a particular scenario which will allow them to get/have their way. They use religion as the instrument to get their dirty work done. Saying to the people the koran says death to the unbeliever.. the koran says this or that.. anything to further the cause of the bully! The sheepish, uneducated, inexperienced, afraid people are helpless to believe anything else... To the delight of the few who would rule them. Divide & conqueor & brainswash & intimidate with fear... Sadam was only too well aware of these ever so efficacious tactics. Just as mentor/philosopher Machevalii said to his student prince's " do whatever you wish for there is only one in a million who will stand up against you". In all honesty so are the western leaders manipulating their sheep however their tactics are less brutal and much more subtle but nevertheless they employ underhanded tactics upon their subjects.. obviously a certain amount of control is necessary to ward of total chaos. Yes it is a tender balance & I prefer the western style
control over the muslim style. In the west the people, as can be proven, enjoy more freedom than exists in the muslim world. The women are not so brutally treated in the west as in the muslim world.. this is one of my biggest bones of contention. Why even the men in muslim societies who are brutally dominated exercise the same vicious tactics on "their" women.. yes "their" women.. Thus though they abhor the hand that punishes & holds them down & severly brutally restricts them they "HYPOCRITICALLY" are guility of the same vicious behavior towards their wives & children! Do unto to others as you would have them do unto you is a non existent concept! You can to some extent see a similiar behavior pattern in the west. Western Psychologists will tell you that children raised in abusive families often abuse their own children. The barbarian seed in the human runs deep. Somehow the west has evolved a less unfair, brutal outward civilization though the seeds are there perhaps somewhat dormant. Fear of reprisal is the only thing that restrains many westerners. The muslim world has no monopoly on brutality & unfairness..History is replete with human treachery.. It is the old struggle between good and evil.. which one will ultimately prevail. A people ultimately get the governance they deserve............... Sad but the guy in the street vehemently dislikes being bullied by his 'superiors' hoowever he does not want these ' bully' tactics outlawed lest he not be able to (git dis) " discipline " his own brood! And none dare call it treason!
Thursday, August 12, 2010
To whom are prophets sent?
Question: I'm thinking that many people are not ... strongly religious. Some might even deny religion publicly, and others just "can't be bothered" with religion in their lives. These are people who live in the world and have religious associations of the lightest kind, giving alms and tithes and going to services on some of the most mandatory dates just to make an appearance. There are probably more such people in our world than there are such as we, who they see as obsessive in our pursuit of such nonsense. It is to these people that the prophets are sent, is it not?
Answer:I guess we all need guidance. Intuitively, the thinking mind can identify the presence of a creator/ cause agent / prime mover or whatever label our minds come up with. Also, the conscientious soul can discern between right and wrong. But, to make things clear and inform us of the reality of it, to sift the correct philosophy from the philosophical maze that we reason, I think its a cherished blessing that we all need to be thankful for.
In fact, God says in the Quran that the prophets' only duty is to give glad tidings and warn. There is no compulsion in religion, and only those who are essentially good will willingly heed to the message. Therefore, the prophets need not worry and cry their hearts out in compassion for those who do not heed to the message. They should only persevere with the message, knowing that only God knows what's in the hearts, thus sharing the message with all, and not giving up on anyone.
This discussion group itself is a good example of thinking souls, searching for answers, coming up with their own ideas of who / what this force is, whether it is sentient or not, if this is all part of evolution where the 'force' had no choice or whether it is a deliberate divine act, do we need to acknowledge and deify this force, if yes, then who and how? We need guidance. Let me share the oft-repeated seven verses, a prayer we recite daily in our prayers. We ask for guidance on the right path... as left to our own devices, it would be easy to get lost in our thoughts and ideas, and end up misguided.
Holy Quran Chapter 1 Verses 1-7
1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.
4 Master of the Day of Judgment,
5 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
6 Show us the straight path,
7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=1&translator=4
Answer:I guess we all need guidance. Intuitively, the thinking mind can identify the presence of a creator/ cause agent / prime mover or whatever label our minds come up with. Also, the conscientious soul can discern between right and wrong. But, to make things clear and inform us of the reality of it, to sift the correct philosophy from the philosophical maze that we reason, I think its a cherished blessing that we all need to be thankful for.
In fact, God says in the Quran that the prophets' only duty is to give glad tidings and warn. There is no compulsion in religion, and only those who are essentially good will willingly heed to the message. Therefore, the prophets need not worry and cry their hearts out in compassion for those who do not heed to the message. They should only persevere with the message, knowing that only God knows what's in the hearts, thus sharing the message with all, and not giving up on anyone.
This discussion group itself is a good example of thinking souls, searching for answers, coming up with their own ideas of who / what this force is, whether it is sentient or not, if this is all part of evolution where the 'force' had no choice or whether it is a deliberate divine act, do we need to acknowledge and deify this force, if yes, then who and how? We need guidance. Let me share the oft-repeated seven verses, a prayer we recite daily in our prayers. We ask for guidance on the right path... as left to our own devices, it would be easy to get lost in our thoughts and ideas, and end up misguided.
Holy Quran Chapter 1 Verses 1-7
1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.
4 Master of the Day of Judgment,
5 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
6 Show us the straight path,
7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=1&translator=4
Hell
A few comments on Hell prompted this response
Comment1: I have absolutely no belief in Hell, in fact I think very few people outside the Abrahamic faiths do. It's a horrible place invented to force feed monotheists with scary dreams until they obey the doctrines of the church.
Comment2: Hell is believing that there is a cruel God in the sky who would condemn anybody to eternal suffering. Hell is now for all those who believe in this kind of
God.
Comment3:Actually, quite a few other religions believe in something similar to "hell", but like you, I do not accept the idea either. what kind of monster "god" would want such a thing??????........
Response:As far as Heaven or destruction is, the problem is that there probably is no absolute mortality, rather, what we believe is that death is but a prolonged sleep, and then we will be recreated(re-awkened, re-assembled, re-constructed, resurrected) on the Day of Reckoning, after which there is immortality, and whether it is Heaven or Hell, we will live in it forever.
To elaborate as I understand from the Quran, God does not wish to punish us. He wishes to purify us and guide us to a blissful eternal life in Heaven. An essentail part of the purification is the free-will and trial, and all who take the guidance and do good deeds are given the glad tidings of Heaven. Again and again, it speaks of 'and they will live in there forever'. Also, another point to note is that throughout the text, we do not find any prayer for Heaven, rather its just mentioned as a reward and a blessing. What we find are prayers to be saved from the fire. God alone can grant guidance, and that He grants only to those who exercise their free will to ask for guidance. Those who exercise their free-will in some other direction, God lets them pursue that direction. There is no compulsion in religion, but the trial and the reckoning are compulsory, and so is eternal life.
Allah mentions in the Quran 4:147
Yusuf Ali 147: What can Allah gain by your punishment, if ye are grateful and ye believe? Nay, it is Allah that recogniseth (all good), and knoweth all things.
Shakir 147: Why should Allah chastise you if you are grateful and believe? And Allah is the Multiplier of rewards, Knowing
Pickthal 147: What concern hath Allah for your punishment if ye are thankful (for His mercies) and believe (in Him)? Allah was ever Responsive, Aware.
Mohsin Khan: 147: Why should Allah punish you if you have thanked (Him) and have believed in Him. And Allah is Ever All-Appreciative (of good), All-Knowing.
Comment1: I have absolutely no belief in Hell, in fact I think very few people outside the Abrahamic faiths do. It's a horrible place invented to force feed monotheists with scary dreams until they obey the doctrines of the church.
Comment2: Hell is believing that there is a cruel God in the sky who would condemn anybody to eternal suffering. Hell is now for all those who believe in this kind of
God.
Comment3:Actually, quite a few other religions believe in something similar to "hell", but like you, I do not accept the idea either. what kind of monster "god" would want such a thing??????........
Response:As far as Heaven or destruction is, the problem is that there probably is no absolute mortality, rather, what we believe is that death is but a prolonged sleep, and then we will be recreated(re-awkened, re-assembled, re-constructed, resurrected) on the Day of Reckoning, after which there is immortality, and whether it is Heaven or Hell, we will live in it forever.
To elaborate as I understand from the Quran, God does not wish to punish us. He wishes to purify us and guide us to a blissful eternal life in Heaven. An essentail part of the purification is the free-will and trial, and all who take the guidance and do good deeds are given the glad tidings of Heaven. Again and again, it speaks of 'and they will live in there forever'. Also, another point to note is that throughout the text, we do not find any prayer for Heaven, rather its just mentioned as a reward and a blessing. What we find are prayers to be saved from the fire. God alone can grant guidance, and that He grants only to those who exercise their free will to ask for guidance. Those who exercise their free-will in some other direction, God lets them pursue that direction. There is no compulsion in religion, but the trial and the reckoning are compulsory, and so is eternal life.
Allah mentions in the Quran 4:147
Yusuf Ali 147: What can Allah gain by your punishment, if ye are grateful and ye believe? Nay, it is Allah that recogniseth (all good), and knoweth all things.
Shakir 147: Why should Allah chastise you if you are grateful and believe? And Allah is the Multiplier of rewards, Knowing
Pickthal 147: What concern hath Allah for your punishment if ye are thankful (for His mercies) and believe (in Him)? Allah was ever Responsive, Aware.
Mohsin Khan: 147: Why should Allah punish you if you have thanked (Him) and have believed in Him. And Allah is Ever All-Appreciative (of good), All-Knowing.
Sunday, July 25, 2010
Are humans the best of creations?
Question: http://www.damninteresting.com/amoebic-morality
Have a read through this article and tell me if your belief in us being ashraf-ul-makhlooqat(the best of creation) is not shaken.
Answer: Amazing, subhanAllah (Glory to God) for sharing.
The more one looks around, the more one discovers wondorous organization in nature, things which can't just be attributed to Natural Selection alone. There has to be a power, a directing force, who has created Natural Selection and enabled creatures to choose it.
As far as 'ashraf-ul-makhlooqat' is concerned, its a popular though inaccurate belief. Allah says in the Quran, Chapter 17 Verse 70:
Yusuf Ali 70: We have honoured the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours, above a great part of our creation.
Shakir 70: And surely We have honored the children of Adam, and We carry them in the land and the sea, and We have given them of the good things, and We have made them to excel by an appropriate excellence over most of those whom We have created.
Pickthal 70: Verily we have honoured the Children of Adam. We carry them on the land and the sea, and have made provision of good things for them, and have preferred them above many of those whom We created with a marked preferment.
Mohsin Khan: 70: And indeed We have honoured the Children of Adam, and We have carried them on land and sea, and have provided them with At-Tayyibat (lawful good things), and have preferred them above many of those whom We have created with a marked preferment.
Notice that all four translators have translated it as over or above many... a relative/comparative term, not the absolute 'best'. We have much to be grateful for, but we are certainly not the best of creations.
Also, thank you for this article. I had read in the Quran(6:38) that all creatures were organized in colonies, and often wondered how amoebas fit in. This article was really helpful.
The Holy Quran, Chapter:6 Verse:38
Yusuf Ali 38: There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
Shakir 38: And there is no animal that walks upon the earth nor a bird that flies with its two wings but (they are) genera like yourselves; We have not neglected anything in the Book, then to their Lord shall they be gathered.
Pickthal 38: There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.
Mohsin Khan: 38: There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered.
www.searchtruth.com
Have a read through this article and tell me if your belief in us being ashraf-ul-makhlooqat(the best of creation) is not shaken.
Answer: Amazing, subhanAllah (Glory to God) for sharing.
The more one looks around, the more one discovers wondorous organization in nature, things which can't just be attributed to Natural Selection alone. There has to be a power, a directing force, who has created Natural Selection and enabled creatures to choose it.
As far as 'ashraf-ul-makhlooqat' is concerned, its a popular though inaccurate belief. Allah says in the Quran, Chapter 17 Verse 70:
Yusuf Ali 70: We have honoured the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours, above a great part of our creation.
Shakir 70: And surely We have honored the children of Adam, and We carry them in the land and the sea, and We have given them of the good things, and We have made them to excel by an appropriate excellence over most of those whom We have created.
Pickthal 70: Verily we have honoured the Children of Adam. We carry them on the land and the sea, and have made provision of good things for them, and have preferred them above many of those whom We created with a marked preferment.
Mohsin Khan: 70: And indeed We have honoured the Children of Adam, and We have carried them on land and sea, and have provided them with At-Tayyibat (lawful good things), and have preferred them above many of those whom We have created with a marked preferment.
Notice that all four translators have translated it as over or above many... a relative/comparative term, not the absolute 'best'. We have much to be grateful for, but we are certainly not the best of creations.
Also, thank you for this article. I had read in the Quran(6:38) that all creatures were organized in colonies, and often wondered how amoebas fit in. This article was really helpful.
The Holy Quran, Chapter:6 Verse:38
Yusuf Ali 38: There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
Shakir 38: And there is no animal that walks upon the earth nor a bird that flies with its two wings but (they are) genera like yourselves; We have not neglected anything in the Book, then to their Lord shall they be gathered.
Pickthal 38: There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.
Mohsin Khan: 38: There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered.
www.searchtruth.com
Thursday, June 10, 2010
Quran, Muhammad and willful submission
A, you write frequently and claim that your view of a godless universe is indeed the correct view. You probably have followers (people who agree with your contention and world-view). If some of them were to relate what you said about something, and they to others, and yet others, and the chain was to go on... ever played Chinese whispers??? Can you guess what the message would morph into? And throw in a mix of some devious mischief-mongers who deliberately make some changes to your views and comments. Imagine!
As I have stated earlier, the arabic Quran is the word of Allah, guarded and preserved by Him as a guidance for all humanity. The hadith books are human compilation and subject to scrutiny just as much as any other human work. If some people choose to follow it without question and evaluation, they are just as free to do so as they are to follow (or not) any religion. As for your accusation about Allah being discriminatory in giving guidance, the fact of the matter is that we all have been equally blessed with life, signs in nature, a conscience, and the Quran. Though He blesses all of us with all these as well as varying degrees of wordly comforts and joys (or trials and tribulations), He wishes willful obedience from us. Had He wished, He could have made us all Muslims, but that is not the idea. He has sent us here on trial, and those who choose to willfully submit to His will qualify for Heaven. The Quran is a message, confirming the Prophets, Books and Messages of old, a message of glad tidings for those who believe and do good deeds, and a warning for those who choose not to. It's purpose is to guide those who choose guidance. Only those who choose and seek guidance will be guided. Those who reject will not be forced against their will. But, God makes plain His warning, so that those who reject, the Word is proven against them and they have no excuse on the Day of Judgement. The Prophets will be allowed to intercede only on behalf of those whom Allah allows them to intercede for. The command will indeed completely belong to God. The verses describing the Day of Judgement are only intended to convey a feel of the magnificence and awe. We cannot really begin to appreciate it while trapped in our mortal bodies and limited knowledge, or atleast I can't.
Mainstream Islam believes that Muhammad was mortal and that he died. Though we greatly love and honour our dear Prophet and those who went before him, we firmly believe that he is human. The hadith books did not exist at the time the Quranic verse of obedience to the Prophet was revealed. Simply explained, as the Prophet's entire life was complete obedience of Allah as revealed in the Quran, we are to follow his example and try to obey the Quran in letter and in spirit. Furthermore, as we are told, our dear Prophet was extremely humble and decent and would never tell others if they were being too forward or disrespectful of him, which is why Allah revealed the verses instructing proper conduct (the Prophet was obliged to recite all revealed verses, so he had no choice in the matter).
As for people belonging to other religions, when the Quran was being revealed, Jews and Christians also lived there. Jews were those who did not believe in Jesus, and Christians were those who believed in Jesus as well as all the prophets before him. In either case, both these groups did not believe Muhammad to be a prophet. Yet, in certain verses, Allah speaks very highly of certain People of the Book who were extremely pious. As I understand, belief in one God and continuous search for truth and guidance, and willful submission and piety is what is required, not a particular religious brand.
Holy Quran 5:119 Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation.
As for the muslim confession of shahdah, the translation is: there is no deity but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. Whenever we recite it, we are immediately reminded that only Allah is divine. Religions of afore have repeatedly made the mistake of glorifying their prophets to the extent that they've deified them; we are reminded over and over again to remember to not to commit this grave mistake. There is only one God, the Creator and Sustainer of all, and to whom shall be the final return.
May Allah guide us all.
Regards,
Samiya
As I have stated earlier, the arabic Quran is the word of Allah, guarded and preserved by Him as a guidance for all humanity. The hadith books are human compilation and subject to scrutiny just as much as any other human work. If some people choose to follow it without question and evaluation, they are just as free to do so as they are to follow (or not) any religion. As for your accusation about Allah being discriminatory in giving guidance, the fact of the matter is that we all have been equally blessed with life, signs in nature, a conscience, and the Quran. Though He blesses all of us with all these as well as varying degrees of wordly comforts and joys (or trials and tribulations), He wishes willful obedience from us. Had He wished, He could have made us all Muslims, but that is not the idea. He has sent us here on trial, and those who choose to willfully submit to His will qualify for Heaven. The Quran is a message, confirming the Prophets, Books and Messages of old, a message of glad tidings for those who believe and do good deeds, and a warning for those who choose not to. It's purpose is to guide those who choose guidance. Only those who choose and seek guidance will be guided. Those who reject will not be forced against their will. But, God makes plain His warning, so that those who reject, the Word is proven against them and they have no excuse on the Day of Judgement. The Prophets will be allowed to intercede only on behalf of those whom Allah allows them to intercede for. The command will indeed completely belong to God. The verses describing the Day of Judgement are only intended to convey a feel of the magnificence and awe. We cannot really begin to appreciate it while trapped in our mortal bodies and limited knowledge, or atleast I can't.
Mainstream Islam believes that Muhammad was mortal and that he died. Though we greatly love and honour our dear Prophet and those who went before him, we firmly believe that he is human. The hadith books did not exist at the time the Quranic verse of obedience to the Prophet was revealed. Simply explained, as the Prophet's entire life was complete obedience of Allah as revealed in the Quran, we are to follow his example and try to obey the Quran in letter and in spirit. Furthermore, as we are told, our dear Prophet was extremely humble and decent and would never tell others if they were being too forward or disrespectful of him, which is why Allah revealed the verses instructing proper conduct (the Prophet was obliged to recite all revealed verses, so he had no choice in the matter).
As for people belonging to other religions, when the Quran was being revealed, Jews and Christians also lived there. Jews were those who did not believe in Jesus, and Christians were those who believed in Jesus as well as all the prophets before him. In either case, both these groups did not believe Muhammad to be a prophet. Yet, in certain verses, Allah speaks very highly of certain People of the Book who were extremely pious. As I understand, belief in one God and continuous search for truth and guidance, and willful submission and piety is what is required, not a particular religious brand.
Holy Quran 5:119 Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation.
As for the muslim confession of shahdah, the translation is: there is no deity but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. Whenever we recite it, we are immediately reminded that only Allah is divine. Religions of afore have repeatedly made the mistake of glorifying their prophets to the extent that they've deified them; we are reminded over and over again to remember to not to commit this grave mistake. There is only one God, the Creator and Sustainer of all, and to whom shall be the final return.
May Allah guide us all.
Regards,
Samiya
Wednesday, May 19, 2010
Shifting Pronouns
Question: In the Koran, isn't All-h often referred to in the plural 'us' and/or 'we'?
Answer: Allah uses both I and We/Us when referring to Himself. There are a few explanations for this as follows:
1) The We/Us is the royal plural pronoun, as in when a king refers to himself, he uses We or Us instead.2) When Allah is referring to something which He alone does/did, He refers to it in the singular pronoun I, where as when speaking of tasks which He delegates to angels, for example, the pronoun is We / Us. http://can-you-answer.com/scripts/miscArticles.asp?artno=92
UPDATE:
[June 4, 2017] Contrary to the above explanation, there is a literal, factual difference between the singular and plural usage. Please read the subheading THE CREATOR I and THE CREATORS WE at the following link: Human: Body or Soul?
Status of Women in Islam
A's post [Joys of Muslim Women by freemenow / Nonie Darwish] about the status and condition of muslim women is a classic case of the use of media to misrepresent and place the blame on Islam for the actions of individuals. People across ages, cultures and civilizations have misused religion and laws to serve their own vested interests. Whether the story reported is or not true, the article must have raised a few questions and misgivings about Islam and its treatment of women. Before I go on to state the position of Quran on the issues, let me point out a few things which are crucial to the discussion:
The primary source of guidance in Islam is the Quran (arabic), which all muslims, no matter which sect they may or may not belong to, agree to be the very word of God. The Shariah (Laws) dictated by God, in the Quran are very few.
Shariah, as a broad term, is applied to the collection of juristic interpretations based upon historical evidences, as recorded and applied over a period of time, extending a few centuries after the Prophet's death. They are prone to human errors of judgement, transmission, recording and application without context.
There are Muslims who just take the Quran as their source of guidance, others who take it as the primary source of guidance while recognizing the hadith and shariah as secondary and tertiary sources, whereas others give more or less just an equal weightage to all three.
Those who subscribe to the ideology of certain sects, adhere to the collection of the hadith and shariah which their sect deems to be most authentic. Thus, from the wide range of works, different groups chose some overlapping and some totally different works, thus opinions, understanding and application vary.
I, for one, take the Quran to be the primary source of guidance. Though I recognize the collection of hadith and jurisprudence as a rich collection of historical data, it is just that. These are human recordings based on human understanding and memory, and as such need careful scrutiny before acceptance.
Furthermore, it would do well to remember that all religious texts have been corrupted by human interpolations over time. As God has Himself taken the responsibility of protecting the arabic Quran from changes, poeple with a different agenda have put in a lot of objectionable, questionable material in the secondary and tertiary sources. Those who are naive enough to take these sources as also authentic run the risk of being misguided, especially when they do not cross-check its consistency with the Quran.
Another important point is that religion and those who profess it are two different entities. Those who profess to follow a certain religion may or may not be good examples of the religion itself. Therefore, all religions need to be examined on their own merit instead of taking the actions of a few to be respresentative of the beliefs and teachings of the religion.
Now to briefly explain my understanding of the issues raised, as I understand and interpret the Quran.
Islam envisages women not as objects to be sought or bought, but rather as individuals who play a very valuable and fundamental role in society. Islam does not allow sex outside marriage. Marriage is a sacred institution, and is supposed to be a source of peace for the spouses. As women have been exploited over ages, across cultures and religions, Islam specifically orders muslim men to give their wife a gift money at the time of marriage as a form of security, which is her's and the muslim man cannot ask it back ever, even if he has given her a treasure, even if he's divorcing her.
The concept of paying the family is cultural, finding its origins in non-muslim traditions. That it has sadly crept in the practice of some muslim families does not make it Islamic.
The right to give divorce has been given to men, and the right to ask for a divorce has been given to women. The arabic term for this right of women is 'khula'. As men have been given a degree over women (in familial administrative matters), therefore it logically extends that he has the right to dissolve the marriage, though the Quran details conditions such as witnesses(two persons from among them, endued with justice, to establish the evidence) of both the spouses who will try to reconciliate / discuss on behalf of the individual why the marriage should or should not be dissolved. Similarly, if a woman wishes to end her marriage, she can also request it, and the same process is to be ideally followed. Islam places a great emphasis on the pivotal role a proper family unit plays in the life of individuals and seeks to minimize the number of broken homes in society. Thus, divorce/separation and reconciliation is allowed two times, but if the spouses recourse to divorce a third time, then they may no longer be united again, as marriage is not a game to be taken lightly.
The concept of child marriages finds its origins in weak traditions which purport that the Prophet married Ayesha when she was only nine years old. This is not true, and scholars have researched and established that she was around 19 or 20 years old at the time of consummation of marriage. Furthermore, the Quran exhorts muslims to obey the law of the land as well, thus since all modern nations have a minimum marriagable age, child marriages are absolutely out of the question. That its practiced by certain people does not mean its okay or islamic.
Human life is sacred. Honour killings are an evil practiced by certain groups of people in the name of the religion, though it has no basis in the religion, rather is totally reprehensible.
Islam attaches great importance to a woman's honour and good name. Thus to make it absolutely difficult, Allah has indeed made it extremely difficult for anybody to accuse anybody else for adultery. To even admit the case in court you need atleast 4 witnesses, how is it possible to get 4 witnesses for such a thing? Then again, if the accusation is found to be false, the accuser is to be flogged with eighty stripes, and never again is his testimony to be accepted throughout his life! And if a person accuses his/her spouse of adultery, he/she is required to take oath 4 times that the accusation is true, and a fifth oath that if he/she is lying, may the wrath of Allah fall upon him/her. And then they can go their separate ways in life, with the judgement left to God. Therefore, only the openly promiscuous can be found guilty and punished with a hundred lashes.
Muslim women have played an active role in society right since the Prophet's time, and upto this day. We have female muslim scientists, politicians, engineers, doctors, nurses, etc etc. The only difference is that Islam places women on a higher pedestal than men, not requiring women to earn a living and provide for the family. They can practice whatever trade and profession they wish, but they do not have to. Men are responsible for earning 'the bread', leaving women with the flexibility to be 'stay-at-home mothers' as the need may be. Sadly, very few women in the 'western nations' enjoy such a luxury.
As far as veiling and seclusion is concerned, we are only directed to dress modestly. Different cultures have developed their own concepts of modesty, but veiling or seclusion is not a requirement of Islam. In fact, in the Grand Pilgrimage that the muslims undertake, women are not allowed to cover their faces, and pray and perform all the rites side by side with the men.
Below are the links to some of the answers I've posted earlier on similar and related issues.
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/position-of-women.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-be-or-not-to-be-equal-comments-on.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-spankbeat-wives-is-not-crime.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/conditional-polygamy-permitted-in-islam.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/11/shariah-law.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/shariah-law-and-flogging-as-form-of.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/08/intolerance-and-misuse-of-religion.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/03/comments-on-islam-muslims-terrorism-and.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/12/scientific-accuracy-of-hadith.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/which-hadith-should-we-follow.html
The primary source of guidance in Islam is the Quran (arabic), which all muslims, no matter which sect they may or may not belong to, agree to be the very word of God. The Shariah (Laws) dictated by God, in the Quran are very few.
Shariah, as a broad term, is applied to the collection of juristic interpretations based upon historical evidences, as recorded and applied over a period of time, extending a few centuries after the Prophet's death. They are prone to human errors of judgement, transmission, recording and application without context.
There are Muslims who just take the Quran as their source of guidance, others who take it as the primary source of guidance while recognizing the hadith and shariah as secondary and tertiary sources, whereas others give more or less just an equal weightage to all three.
Those who subscribe to the ideology of certain sects, adhere to the collection of the hadith and shariah which their sect deems to be most authentic. Thus, from the wide range of works, different groups chose some overlapping and some totally different works, thus opinions, understanding and application vary.
I, for one, take the Quran to be the primary source of guidance. Though I recognize the collection of hadith and jurisprudence as a rich collection of historical data, it is just that. These are human recordings based on human understanding and memory, and as such need careful scrutiny before acceptance.
Furthermore, it would do well to remember that all religious texts have been corrupted by human interpolations over time. As God has Himself taken the responsibility of protecting the arabic Quran from changes, poeple with a different agenda have put in a lot of objectionable, questionable material in the secondary and tertiary sources. Those who are naive enough to take these sources as also authentic run the risk of being misguided, especially when they do not cross-check its consistency with the Quran.
Another important point is that religion and those who profess it are two different entities. Those who profess to follow a certain religion may or may not be good examples of the religion itself. Therefore, all religions need to be examined on their own merit instead of taking the actions of a few to be respresentative of the beliefs and teachings of the religion.
Now to briefly explain my understanding of the issues raised, as I understand and interpret the Quran.
Islam envisages women not as objects to be sought or bought, but rather as individuals who play a very valuable and fundamental role in society. Islam does not allow sex outside marriage. Marriage is a sacred institution, and is supposed to be a source of peace for the spouses. As women have been exploited over ages, across cultures and religions, Islam specifically orders muslim men to give their wife a gift money at the time of marriage as a form of security, which is her's and the muslim man cannot ask it back ever, even if he has given her a treasure, even if he's divorcing her.
The concept of paying the family is cultural, finding its origins in non-muslim traditions. That it has sadly crept in the practice of some muslim families does not make it Islamic.
The right to give divorce has been given to men, and the right to ask for a divorce has been given to women. The arabic term for this right of women is 'khula'. As men have been given a degree over women (in familial administrative matters), therefore it logically extends that he has the right to dissolve the marriage, though the Quran details conditions such as witnesses(two persons from among them, endued with justice, to establish the evidence) of both the spouses who will try to reconciliate / discuss on behalf of the individual why the marriage should or should not be dissolved. Similarly, if a woman wishes to end her marriage, she can also request it, and the same process is to be ideally followed. Islam places a great emphasis on the pivotal role a proper family unit plays in the life of individuals and seeks to minimize the number of broken homes in society. Thus, divorce/separation and reconciliation is allowed two times, but if the spouses recourse to divorce a third time, then they may no longer be united again, as marriage is not a game to be taken lightly.
The concept of child marriages finds its origins in weak traditions which purport that the Prophet married Ayesha when she was only nine years old. This is not true, and scholars have researched and established that she was around 19 or 20 years old at the time of consummation of marriage. Furthermore, the Quran exhorts muslims to obey the law of the land as well, thus since all modern nations have a minimum marriagable age, child marriages are absolutely out of the question. That its practiced by certain people does not mean its okay or islamic.
Human life is sacred. Honour killings are an evil practiced by certain groups of people in the name of the religion, though it has no basis in the religion, rather is totally reprehensible.
Islam attaches great importance to a woman's honour and good name. Thus to make it absolutely difficult, Allah has indeed made it extremely difficult for anybody to accuse anybody else for adultery. To even admit the case in court you need atleast 4 witnesses, how is it possible to get 4 witnesses for such a thing? Then again, if the accusation is found to be false, the accuser is to be flogged with eighty stripes, and never again is his testimony to be accepted throughout his life! And if a person accuses his/her spouse of adultery, he/she is required to take oath 4 times that the accusation is true, and a fifth oath that if he/she is lying, may the wrath of Allah fall upon him/her. And then they can go their separate ways in life, with the judgement left to God. Therefore, only the openly promiscuous can be found guilty and punished with a hundred lashes.
Muslim women have played an active role in society right since the Prophet's time, and upto this day. We have female muslim scientists, politicians, engineers, doctors, nurses, etc etc. The only difference is that Islam places women on a higher pedestal than men, not requiring women to earn a living and provide for the family. They can practice whatever trade and profession they wish, but they do not have to. Men are responsible for earning 'the bread', leaving women with the flexibility to be 'stay-at-home mothers' as the need may be. Sadly, very few women in the 'western nations' enjoy such a luxury.
As far as veiling and seclusion is concerned, we are only directed to dress modestly. Different cultures have developed their own concepts of modesty, but veiling or seclusion is not a requirement of Islam. In fact, in the Grand Pilgrimage that the muslims undertake, women are not allowed to cover their faces, and pray and perform all the rites side by side with the men.
Below are the links to some of the answers I've posted earlier on similar and related issues.
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/position-of-women.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-be-or-not-to-be-equal-comments-on.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-spankbeat-wives-is-not-crime.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/conditional-polygamy-permitted-in-islam.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/11/shariah-law.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/shariah-law-and-flogging-as-form-of.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/08/intolerance-and-misuse-of-religion.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/03/comments-on-islam-muslims-terrorism-and.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/12/scientific-accuracy-of-hadith.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/which-hadith-should-we-follow.html
Saturday, May 15, 2010
Muslims, education and enlightenment
Question: Why do you suppose that muslim nations turned their back on education and enlightenment while Europeans have embraced knowledge, inquiry, ethics & morals?
question generated in response to: Questions about Islam
Answer: When Islam was revealed, the Prophet emphasized on the importance of inquiry, knowledge and learning. As Muslim civilization flourished, people took up academic research as a religious duty, and thus were launched the golden years of the Islamic civilization. Check out the links below to see some contributions of muslims to the world of science and learning.
Later, as history bears witness, the same happened which has been the fate of all great civilizations. The later generations basked in the glory of their predecessors, enjoying the fruits of their labour, and not contributing much themselves. Then came an era when people started feeling threatened by open thought, and sought to return to the original by closing the door on inquiry and interpretation. This was followed by Mongol invasions when great libraries were burnt down.
Islam is a great religion, and the Holy Quran a great guidance, if only we are willing to take it.
The Holy Quran Chapter 96, Verses 4,5
96:4) He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
96:5) Taught man that which he knew not
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=96&translator=2&mac=
It is popularly believed that the first five verses of Chapter 96 were the first revelation to Prophet Muhammad.
Some links:
http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=3833
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox2iZOKStCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI8r91TUIgs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-n2BoPE2GE
movie; The Message (do watch all 20 parts) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnL3NKdjdtE&feature=related
or full movie (3 hours) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5PI4ZPcX6I
question generated in response to: Questions about Islam
Answer: When Islam was revealed, the Prophet emphasized on the importance of inquiry, knowledge and learning. As Muslim civilization flourished, people took up academic research as a religious duty, and thus were launched the golden years of the Islamic civilization. Check out the links below to see some contributions of muslims to the world of science and learning.
Later, as history bears witness, the same happened which has been the fate of all great civilizations. The later generations basked in the glory of their predecessors, enjoying the fruits of their labour, and not contributing much themselves. Then came an era when people started feeling threatened by open thought, and sought to return to the original by closing the door on inquiry and interpretation. This was followed by Mongol invasions when great libraries were burnt down.
Islam is a great religion, and the Holy Quran a great guidance, if only we are willing to take it.
The Holy Quran Chapter 96, Verses 4,5
96:4) He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
96:5) Taught man that which he knew not
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=96&translator=2&mac=
It is popularly believed that the first five verses of Chapter 96 were the first revelation to Prophet Muhammad.
Some links:
http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=3833
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox2iZOKStCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI8r91TUIgs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-n2BoPE2GE
movie; The Message (do watch all 20 parts) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnL3NKdjdtE&feature=related
or full movie (3 hours) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5PI4ZPcX6I
Friday, May 14, 2010
Male bias in the Holy Scriptures
Excerpts from a discussion on male bias in the holy scriptures in response to the following comment by GS:
Usually I use male words to describe god when I'm feeling like a lazy typer because the male words tend to be shorter.
The only thing stranger to me than people presuming that god has a gender(more with the monotheist), is that people place such importance on it.
What difference does it make? He/she/it would have to be of sufficient intelligence to create a universe, therefore he/she/it should have some idea that humans are pretty stupid, and he/she/it probably has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so.
Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding. Why obsess over unimportant details? Enlightenment awaits.
My Comment: This is such a sensible mail... God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.
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Y commented: G-d is 'him' in the scriptures and other holy texts because the feminine has been regarded as second-rate for a long time (and still is). Women and men deserve equal respect, and how we refer to the Divine One is one place to make an improvement. I use 'S/He,' and am open to other suggestions. :)
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My Comment: What you say is another angle of looking at it, but as far as the Holy Quran is concerned, we believe the arabic text to be the authentic, untampered word of God. And, in it He has used the male tense to refer to Himself.
In fact, the grammar of the Quran is such that only the specifically female are referred to in the female gender, whereas when speaking generally or collectively, the male tense is employed to cover all. For example, when speaking of / to humans (an-naas), the plural male form is employed.
I feel its basically the grammatical construct of the language, and just to be accepted as is.
Just my two cents.
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Y commented: The problem with male bias is not limited to the Koran; it is also evident in the Torah, the Gospels, and other religions' holy texts. You don't believe that G-d is male do you? If you don't believe that All-h is male, then you ought to be motivated to do something about an obvious problem. If someone were disrespecting your mother, or sister, or wife, would you do nothing? I hope not. :)
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My Comment: Y, the analogy is, I feel, a bit far-fetched. God is nothing like we can ever imagine... we simply do not have the vision or capacity. How does one prove what God is when one is so clueless? When Allah tells me that He cannot be imagined or understood/comprehended by my mortal mind, how do I go about 'solving this obvious problem'?
To quote GS (and myself) again: [God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.]
As GS said, [Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding.]
May God guide us to focus upon and do the deeds that need to be done
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Y commented: I am glad that you agree that G-d is beyond gender. Holy texts ought to be rewritten to reflect this. And, we ought to change the words we use to reflect this as well. The male bias in referring to G-d has had real world consequences for women (second-class status). This is not trivial.
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My Comment: Y, I'm a woman, and I have no problem with that. God does not degrade or assign second class status to women, He's just created males and females differently to complement and complete each other, and as such the nature of responsibilities assigned are different. Whether the scripture reflects male or female bias or otherwise will have no bearing on how women are treated in society... the weak are oppressed and exploited, its the law of the jungle, and most people can't seem to rise above their base selves to actualize their true potential. If people start following the scripture, in letter and in spirit, these problems would vanish away.
If I may, I was just reading this passage, think it bears some significance to the discussion:
Holy Quran Chapter 4, Verses 116-126
116 Lo! Allah pardoneth not that partners should be ascribed unto Him. He pardoneth all save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah hath wandered far astray.
117 They invoke in His stead only females; they pray to none else than Satan, a rebel
118 Whom Allah cursed, and he said: Surely I will take of Thy bondmen an appointed portion,
119 And surely I will lead them astray, and surely I will arouse desires in them, and surely I will command them and they will cut the cattle' ears, and surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation. Whoso chooseth Satan for a patron instead of Allah is verily a loser and his loss is manifest.
120 He promiseth them and stirreth up desires in them, and Satan promiseth them only to beguile.
121 For such, their habitation will be hell, and they will find no refuge therefrom.
122 But as for those who believe and do good works We shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. It is a promise from Allah in truth; and who can be more truthful than Allah in utterance?
123 It will not be in accordance with your desires, nor the desires of the People of the Scripture. He who doeth wrong will have the recompense thereof, and will not find against Allah any protecting friend or helper.
124 And whoso doeth good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date-stone.
125 Who is better in religion than he who surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good (to men) and followeth the tradition of Abraham, the upright? Allah (Himself) chose Abraham for friend.
126 Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Allah ever surroundeth all things.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=4
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Y commented: Thank you Samiya for your thoughts. :)
I am glad that you are a woman. :) And I agree with you that G-d does not regard women as second class. G-d created women and men as equal partners, with different gifts.
When the weak are oppressed and exploited, a community is about to self-destruct. The strong must help the weak in order for a community to thrive.
Again I will state that holy texts should be rewritten to remove the male bias. The male bias does cause harm.
Namaste and Salaam and Shalom,
Usually I use male words to describe god when I'm feeling like a lazy typer because the male words tend to be shorter.
The only thing stranger to me than people presuming that god has a gender(more with the monotheist), is that people place such importance on it.
What difference does it make? He/she/it would have to be of sufficient intelligence to create a universe, therefore he/she/it should have some idea that humans are pretty stupid, and he/she/it probably has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so.
Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding. Why obsess over unimportant details? Enlightenment awaits.
My Comment: This is such a sensible mail... God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Y commented: G-d is 'him' in the scriptures and other holy texts because the feminine has been regarded as second-rate for a long time (and still is). Women and men deserve equal respect, and how we refer to the Divine One is one place to make an improvement. I use 'S/He,' and am open to other suggestions. :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Comment: What you say is another angle of looking at it, but as far as the Holy Quran is concerned, we believe the arabic text to be the authentic, untampered word of God. And, in it He has used the male tense to refer to Himself.
In fact, the grammar of the Quran is such that only the specifically female are referred to in the female gender, whereas when speaking generally or collectively, the male tense is employed to cover all. For example, when speaking of / to humans (an-naas), the plural male form is employed.
I feel its basically the grammatical construct of the language, and just to be accepted as is.
Just my two cents.
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Y commented: The problem with male bias is not limited to the Koran; it is also evident in the Torah, the Gospels, and other religions' holy texts. You don't believe that G-d is male do you? If you don't believe that All-h is male, then you ought to be motivated to do something about an obvious problem. If someone were disrespecting your mother, or sister, or wife, would you do nothing? I hope not. :)
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My Comment: Y, the analogy is, I feel, a bit far-fetched. God is nothing like we can ever imagine... we simply do not have the vision or capacity. How does one prove what God is when one is so clueless? When Allah tells me that He cannot be imagined or understood/comprehended by my mortal mind, how do I go about 'solving this obvious problem'?
To quote GS (and myself) again: [God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.]
As GS said, [Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding.]
May God guide us to focus upon and do the deeds that need to be done
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Y commented: I am glad that you agree that G-d is beyond gender. Holy texts ought to be rewritten to reflect this. And, we ought to change the words we use to reflect this as well. The male bias in referring to G-d has had real world consequences for women (second-class status). This is not trivial.
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My Comment: Y, I'm a woman, and I have no problem with that. God does not degrade or assign second class status to women, He's just created males and females differently to complement and complete each other, and as such the nature of responsibilities assigned are different. Whether the scripture reflects male or female bias or otherwise will have no bearing on how women are treated in society... the weak are oppressed and exploited, its the law of the jungle, and most people can't seem to rise above their base selves to actualize their true potential. If people start following the scripture, in letter and in spirit, these problems would vanish away.
If I may, I was just reading this passage, think it bears some significance to the discussion:
Holy Quran Chapter 4, Verses 116-126
116 Lo! Allah pardoneth not that partners should be ascribed unto Him. He pardoneth all save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah hath wandered far astray.
117 They invoke in His stead only females; they pray to none else than Satan, a rebel
118 Whom Allah cursed, and he said: Surely I will take of Thy bondmen an appointed portion,
119 And surely I will lead them astray, and surely I will arouse desires in them, and surely I will command them and they will cut the cattle' ears, and surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation. Whoso chooseth Satan for a patron instead of Allah is verily a loser and his loss is manifest.
120 He promiseth them and stirreth up desires in them, and Satan promiseth them only to beguile.
121 For such, their habitation will be hell, and they will find no refuge therefrom.
122 But as for those who believe and do good works We shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. It is a promise from Allah in truth; and who can be more truthful than Allah in utterance?
123 It will not be in accordance with your desires, nor the desires of the People of the Scripture. He who doeth wrong will have the recompense thereof, and will not find against Allah any protecting friend or helper.
124 And whoso doeth good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date-stone.
125 Who is better in religion than he who surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good (to men) and followeth the tradition of Abraham, the upright? Allah (Himself) chose Abraham for friend.
126 Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Allah ever surroundeth all things.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=4
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Y commented: Thank you Samiya for your thoughts. :)
I am glad that you are a woman. :) And I agree with you that G-d does not regard women as second class. G-d created women and men as equal partners, with different gifts.
When the weak are oppressed and exploited, a community is about to self-destruct. The strong must help the weak in order for a community to thrive.
Again I will state that holy texts should be rewritten to remove the male bias. The male bias does cause harm.
Namaste and Salaam and Shalom,