A, you write frequently and claim that your view of a godless universe is indeed the correct view. You probably have followers (people who agree with your contention and world-view). If some of them were to relate what you said about something, and they to others, and yet others, and the chain was to go on... ever played Chinese whispers??? Can you guess what the message would morph into? And throw in a mix of some devious mischief-mongers who deliberately make some changes to your views and comments. Imagine!
As I have stated earlier, the arabic Quran is the word of Allah, guarded and preserved by Him as a guidance for all humanity. The hadith books are human compilation and subject to scrutiny just as much as any other human work. If some people choose to follow it without question and evaluation, they are just as free to do so as they are to follow (or not) any religion. As for your accusation about Allah being discriminatory in giving guidance, the fact of the matter is that we all have been equally blessed with life, signs in nature, a conscience, and the Quran. Though He blesses all of us with all these as well as varying degrees of wordly comforts and joys (or trials and tribulations), He wishes willful obedience from us. Had He wished, He could have made us all Muslims, but that is not the idea. He has sent us here on trial, and those who choose to willfully submit to His will qualify for Heaven. The Quran is a message, confirming the Prophets, Books and Messages of old, a message of glad tidings for those who believe and do good deeds, and a warning for those who choose not to. It's purpose is to guide those who choose guidance. Only those who choose and seek guidance will be guided. Those who reject will not be forced against their will. But, God makes plain His warning, so that those who reject, the Word is proven against them and they have no excuse on the Day of Judgement. The Prophets will be allowed to intercede only on behalf of those whom Allah allows them to intercede for. The command will indeed completely belong to God. The verses describing the Day of Judgement are only intended to convey a feel of the magnificence and awe. We cannot really begin to appreciate it while trapped in our mortal bodies and limited knowledge, or atleast I can't.
Mainstream Islam believes that Muhammad was mortal and that he died. Though we greatly love and honour our dear Prophet and those who went before him, we firmly believe that he is human. The hadith books did not exist at the time the Quranic verse of obedience to the Prophet was revealed. Simply explained, as the Prophet's entire life was complete obedience of Allah as revealed in the Quran, we are to follow his example and try to obey the Quran in letter and in spirit. Furthermore, as we are told, our dear Prophet was extremely humble and decent and would never tell others if they were being too forward or disrespectful of him, which is why Allah revealed the verses instructing proper conduct (the Prophet was obliged to recite all revealed verses, so he had no choice in the matter).
As for people belonging to other religions, when the Quran was being revealed, Jews and Christians also lived there. Jews were those who did not believe in Jesus, and Christians were those who believed in Jesus as well as all the prophets before him. In either case, both these groups did not believe Muhammad to be a prophet. Yet, in certain verses, Allah speaks very highly of certain People of the Book who were extremely pious. As I understand, belief in one God and continuous search for truth and guidance, and willful submission and piety is what is required, not a particular religious brand.
Holy Quran 5:119 Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal Home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah. That is the great salvation.
As for the muslim confession of shahdah, the translation is: there is no deity but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. Whenever we recite it, we are immediately reminded that only Allah is divine. Religions of afore have repeatedly made the mistake of glorifying their prophets to the extent that they've deified them; we are reminded over and over again to remember to not to commit this grave mistake. There is only one God, the Creator and Sustainer of all, and to whom shall be the final return.
May Allah guide us all.
Regards,
Samiya
Thursday, June 10, 2010
Wednesday, May 19, 2010
Shifting Pronouns
Question: In the Koran, isn't All-h often referred to in the plural 'us' and/or 'we'?
Answer: Allah uses both I and We/Us when referring to Himself. There are a few explanations for this as follows:
1) The We/Us is the royal plural pronoun, as in when a king refers to himself, he uses We or Us instead.2) When Allah is referring to something which He alone does/did, He refers to it in the singular pronoun I, where as when speaking of tasks which He delegates to angels, for example, the pronoun is We / Us. http://can-you-answer.com/scripts/miscArticles.asp?artno=92
UPDATE:
[June 4, 2017] Contrary to the above explanation, there is a literal, factual difference between the singular and plural usage. Please read the subheading THE CREATOR I and THE CREATORS WE at the following link: Human: Body or Soul?
Status of Women in Islam
A's post [Joys of Muslim Women by freemenow / Nonie Darwish] about the status and condition of muslim women is a classic case of the use of media to misrepresent and place the blame on Islam for the actions of individuals. People across ages, cultures and civilizations have misused religion and laws to serve their own vested interests. Whether the story reported is or not true, the article must have raised a few questions and misgivings about Islam and its treatment of women. Before I go on to state the position of Quran on the issues, let me point out a few things which are crucial to the discussion:
The primary source of guidance in Islam is the Quran (arabic), which all muslims, no matter which sect they may or may not belong to, agree to be the very word of God. The Shariah (Laws) dictated by God, in the Quran are very few.
Shariah, as a broad term, is applied to the collection of juristic interpretations based upon historical evidences, as recorded and applied over a period of time, extending a few centuries after the Prophet's death. They are prone to human errors of judgement, transmission, recording and application without context.
There are Muslims who just take the Quran as their source of guidance, others who take it as the primary source of guidance while recognizing the hadith and shariah as secondary and tertiary sources, whereas others give more or less just an equal weightage to all three.
Those who subscribe to the ideology of certain sects, adhere to the collection of the hadith and shariah which their sect deems to be most authentic. Thus, from the wide range of works, different groups chose some overlapping and some totally different works, thus opinions, understanding and application vary.
I, for one, take the Quran to be the primary source of guidance. Though I recognize the collection of hadith and jurisprudence as a rich collection of historical data, it is just that. These are human recordings based on human understanding and memory, and as such need careful scrutiny before acceptance.
Furthermore, it would do well to remember that all religious texts have been corrupted by human interpolations over time. As God has Himself taken the responsibility of protecting the arabic Quran from changes, poeple with a different agenda have put in a lot of objectionable, questionable material in the secondary and tertiary sources. Those who are naive enough to take these sources as also authentic run the risk of being misguided, especially when they do not cross-check its consistency with the Quran.
Another important point is that religion and those who profess it are two different entities. Those who profess to follow a certain religion may or may not be good examples of the religion itself. Therefore, all religions need to be examined on their own merit instead of taking the actions of a few to be respresentative of the beliefs and teachings of the religion.
Now to briefly explain my understanding of the issues raised, as I understand and interpret the Quran.
Islam envisages women not as objects to be sought or bought, but rather as individuals who play a very valuable and fundamental role in society. Islam does not allow sex outside marriage. Marriage is a sacred institution, and is supposed to be a source of peace for the spouses. As women have been exploited over ages, across cultures and religions, Islam specifically orders muslim men to give their wife a gift money at the time of marriage as a form of security, which is her's and the muslim man cannot ask it back ever, even if he has given her a treasure, even if he's divorcing her.
The concept of paying the family is cultural, finding its origins in non-muslim traditions. That it has sadly crept in the practice of some muslim families does not make it Islamic.
The right to give divorce has been given to men, and the right to ask for a divorce has been given to women. The arabic term for this right of women is 'khula'. As men have been given a degree over women (in familial administrative matters), therefore it logically extends that he has the right to dissolve the marriage, though the Quran details conditions such as witnesses(two persons from among them, endued with justice, to establish the evidence) of both the spouses who will try to reconciliate / discuss on behalf of the individual why the marriage should or should not be dissolved. Similarly, if a woman wishes to end her marriage, she can also request it, and the same process is to be ideally followed. Islam places a great emphasis on the pivotal role a proper family unit plays in the life of individuals and seeks to minimize the number of broken homes in society. Thus, divorce/separation and reconciliation is allowed two times, but if the spouses recourse to divorce a third time, then they may no longer be united again, as marriage is not a game to be taken lightly.
The concept of child marriages finds its origins in weak traditions which purport that the Prophet married Ayesha when she was only nine years old. This is not true, and scholars have researched and established that she was around 19 or 20 years old at the time of consummation of marriage. Furthermore, the Quran exhorts muslims to obey the law of the land as well, thus since all modern nations have a minimum marriagable age, child marriages are absolutely out of the question. That its practiced by certain people does not mean its okay or islamic.
Human life is sacred. Honour killings are an evil practiced by certain groups of people in the name of the religion, though it has no basis in the religion, rather is totally reprehensible.
Islam attaches great importance to a woman's honour and good name. Thus to make it absolutely difficult, Allah has indeed made it extremely difficult for anybody to accuse anybody else for adultery. To even admit the case in court you need atleast 4 witnesses, how is it possible to get 4 witnesses for such a thing? Then again, if the accusation is found to be false, the accuser is to be flogged with eighty stripes, and never again is his testimony to be accepted throughout his life! And if a person accuses his/her spouse of adultery, he/she is required to take oath 4 times that the accusation is true, and a fifth oath that if he/she is lying, may the wrath of Allah fall upon him/her. And then they can go their separate ways in life, with the judgement left to God. Therefore, only the openly promiscuous can be found guilty and punished with a hundred lashes.
Muslim women have played an active role in society right since the Prophet's time, and upto this day. We have female muslim scientists, politicians, engineers, doctors, nurses, etc etc. The only difference is that Islam places women on a higher pedestal than men, not requiring women to earn a living and provide for the family. They can practice whatever trade and profession they wish, but they do not have to. Men are responsible for earning 'the bread', leaving women with the flexibility to be 'stay-at-home mothers' as the need may be. Sadly, very few women in the 'western nations' enjoy such a luxury.
As far as veiling and seclusion is concerned, we are only directed to dress modestly. Different cultures have developed their own concepts of modesty, but veiling or seclusion is not a requirement of Islam. In fact, in the Grand Pilgrimage that the muslims undertake, women are not allowed to cover their faces, and pray and perform all the rites side by side with the men.
Below are the links to some of the answers I've posted earlier on similar and related issues.
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/position-of-women.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-be-or-not-to-be-equal-comments-on.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-spankbeat-wives-is-not-crime.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/conditional-polygamy-permitted-in-islam.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/11/shariah-law.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/shariah-law-and-flogging-as-form-of.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/08/intolerance-and-misuse-of-religion.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/03/comments-on-islam-muslims-terrorism-and.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/12/scientific-accuracy-of-hadith.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/which-hadith-should-we-follow.html
The primary source of guidance in Islam is the Quran (arabic), which all muslims, no matter which sect they may or may not belong to, agree to be the very word of God. The Shariah (Laws) dictated by God, in the Quran are very few.
Shariah, as a broad term, is applied to the collection of juristic interpretations based upon historical evidences, as recorded and applied over a period of time, extending a few centuries after the Prophet's death. They are prone to human errors of judgement, transmission, recording and application without context.
There are Muslims who just take the Quran as their source of guidance, others who take it as the primary source of guidance while recognizing the hadith and shariah as secondary and tertiary sources, whereas others give more or less just an equal weightage to all three.
Those who subscribe to the ideology of certain sects, adhere to the collection of the hadith and shariah which their sect deems to be most authentic. Thus, from the wide range of works, different groups chose some overlapping and some totally different works, thus opinions, understanding and application vary.
I, for one, take the Quran to be the primary source of guidance. Though I recognize the collection of hadith and jurisprudence as a rich collection of historical data, it is just that. These are human recordings based on human understanding and memory, and as such need careful scrutiny before acceptance.
Furthermore, it would do well to remember that all religious texts have been corrupted by human interpolations over time. As God has Himself taken the responsibility of protecting the arabic Quran from changes, poeple with a different agenda have put in a lot of objectionable, questionable material in the secondary and tertiary sources. Those who are naive enough to take these sources as also authentic run the risk of being misguided, especially when they do not cross-check its consistency with the Quran.
Another important point is that religion and those who profess it are two different entities. Those who profess to follow a certain religion may or may not be good examples of the religion itself. Therefore, all religions need to be examined on their own merit instead of taking the actions of a few to be respresentative of the beliefs and teachings of the religion.
Now to briefly explain my understanding of the issues raised, as I understand and interpret the Quran.
Islam envisages women not as objects to be sought or bought, but rather as individuals who play a very valuable and fundamental role in society. Islam does not allow sex outside marriage. Marriage is a sacred institution, and is supposed to be a source of peace for the spouses. As women have been exploited over ages, across cultures and religions, Islam specifically orders muslim men to give their wife a gift money at the time of marriage as a form of security, which is her's and the muslim man cannot ask it back ever, even if he has given her a treasure, even if he's divorcing her.
The concept of paying the family is cultural, finding its origins in non-muslim traditions. That it has sadly crept in the practice of some muslim families does not make it Islamic.
The right to give divorce has been given to men, and the right to ask for a divorce has been given to women. The arabic term for this right of women is 'khula'. As men have been given a degree over women (in familial administrative matters), therefore it logically extends that he has the right to dissolve the marriage, though the Quran details conditions such as witnesses(two persons from among them, endued with justice, to establish the evidence) of both the spouses who will try to reconciliate / discuss on behalf of the individual why the marriage should or should not be dissolved. Similarly, if a woman wishes to end her marriage, she can also request it, and the same process is to be ideally followed. Islam places a great emphasis on the pivotal role a proper family unit plays in the life of individuals and seeks to minimize the number of broken homes in society. Thus, divorce/separation and reconciliation is allowed two times, but if the spouses recourse to divorce a third time, then they may no longer be united again, as marriage is not a game to be taken lightly.
The concept of child marriages finds its origins in weak traditions which purport that the Prophet married Ayesha when she was only nine years old. This is not true, and scholars have researched and established that she was around 19 or 20 years old at the time of consummation of marriage. Furthermore, the Quran exhorts muslims to obey the law of the land as well, thus since all modern nations have a minimum marriagable age, child marriages are absolutely out of the question. That its practiced by certain people does not mean its okay or islamic.
Human life is sacred. Honour killings are an evil practiced by certain groups of people in the name of the religion, though it has no basis in the religion, rather is totally reprehensible.
Islam attaches great importance to a woman's honour and good name. Thus to make it absolutely difficult, Allah has indeed made it extremely difficult for anybody to accuse anybody else for adultery. To even admit the case in court you need atleast 4 witnesses, how is it possible to get 4 witnesses for such a thing? Then again, if the accusation is found to be false, the accuser is to be flogged with eighty stripes, and never again is his testimony to be accepted throughout his life! And if a person accuses his/her spouse of adultery, he/she is required to take oath 4 times that the accusation is true, and a fifth oath that if he/she is lying, may the wrath of Allah fall upon him/her. And then they can go their separate ways in life, with the judgement left to God. Therefore, only the openly promiscuous can be found guilty and punished with a hundred lashes.
Muslim women have played an active role in society right since the Prophet's time, and upto this day. We have female muslim scientists, politicians, engineers, doctors, nurses, etc etc. The only difference is that Islam places women on a higher pedestal than men, not requiring women to earn a living and provide for the family. They can practice whatever trade and profession they wish, but they do not have to. Men are responsible for earning 'the bread', leaving women with the flexibility to be 'stay-at-home mothers' as the need may be. Sadly, very few women in the 'western nations' enjoy such a luxury.
As far as veiling and seclusion is concerned, we are only directed to dress modestly. Different cultures have developed their own concepts of modesty, but veiling or seclusion is not a requirement of Islam. In fact, in the Grand Pilgrimage that the muslims undertake, women are not allowed to cover their faces, and pray and perform all the rites side by side with the men.
Below are the links to some of the answers I've posted earlier on similar and related issues.
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/position-of-women.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-be-or-not-to-be-equal-comments-on.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/to-spankbeat-wives-is-not-crime.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/conditional-polygamy-permitted-in-islam.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/11/shariah-law.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/06/shariah-law-and-flogging-as-form-of.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2009/08/intolerance-and-misuse-of-religion.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2010/03/comments-on-islam-muslims-terrorism-and.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/12/scientific-accuracy-of-hadith.html
http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2008/11/which-hadith-should-we-follow.html
Saturday, May 15, 2010
Muslims, education and enlightenment
Question: Why do you suppose that muslim nations turned their back on education and enlightenment while Europeans have embraced knowledge, inquiry, ethics & morals?
question generated in response to: Questions about Islam
Answer: When Islam was revealed, the Prophet emphasized on the importance of inquiry, knowledge and learning. As Muslim civilization flourished, people took up academic research as a religious duty, and thus were launched the golden years of the Islamic civilization. Check out the links below to see some contributions of muslims to the world of science and learning.
Later, as history bears witness, the same happened which has been the fate of all great civilizations. The later generations basked in the glory of their predecessors, enjoying the fruits of their labour, and not contributing much themselves. Then came an era when people started feeling threatened by open thought, and sought to return to the original by closing the door on inquiry and interpretation. This was followed by Mongol invasions when great libraries were burnt down.
Islam is a great religion, and the Holy Quran a great guidance, if only we are willing to take it.
The Holy Quran Chapter 96, Verses 4,5
96:4) He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
96:5) Taught man that which he knew not
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=96&translator=2&mac=
It is popularly believed that the first five verses of Chapter 96 were the first revelation to Prophet Muhammad.
Some links:
http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=3833
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox2iZOKStCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI8r91TUIgs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-n2BoPE2GE
movie; The Message (do watch all 20 parts) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnL3NKdjdtE&feature=related
or full movie (3 hours) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5PI4ZPcX6I
question generated in response to: Questions about Islam
Answer: When Islam was revealed, the Prophet emphasized on the importance of inquiry, knowledge and learning. As Muslim civilization flourished, people took up academic research as a religious duty, and thus were launched the golden years of the Islamic civilization. Check out the links below to see some contributions of muslims to the world of science and learning.
Later, as history bears witness, the same happened which has been the fate of all great civilizations. The later generations basked in the glory of their predecessors, enjoying the fruits of their labour, and not contributing much themselves. Then came an era when people started feeling threatened by open thought, and sought to return to the original by closing the door on inquiry and interpretation. This was followed by Mongol invasions when great libraries were burnt down.
Islam is a great religion, and the Holy Quran a great guidance, if only we are willing to take it.
The Holy Quran Chapter 96, Verses 4,5
96:4) He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
96:5) Taught man that which he knew not
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=96&translator=2&mac=
It is popularly believed that the first five verses of Chapter 96 were the first revelation to Prophet Muhammad.
Some links:
http://muslimmedianetwork.com/mmn/?p=3833
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox2iZOKStCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI8r91TUIgs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-n2BoPE2GE
movie; The Message (do watch all 20 parts) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnL3NKdjdtE&feature=related
or full movie (3 hours) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5PI4ZPcX6I
Friday, May 14, 2010
Male bias in the Holy Scriptures
Excerpts from a discussion on male bias in the holy scriptures in response to the following comment by GS:
Usually I use male words to describe god when I'm feeling like a lazy typer because the male words tend to be shorter.
The only thing stranger to me than people presuming that god has a gender(more with the monotheist), is that people place such importance on it.
What difference does it make? He/she/it would have to be of sufficient intelligence to create a universe, therefore he/she/it should have some idea that humans are pretty stupid, and he/she/it probably has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so.
Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding. Why obsess over unimportant details? Enlightenment awaits.
My Comment: This is such a sensible mail... God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.
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Y commented: G-d is 'him' in the scriptures and other holy texts because the feminine has been regarded as second-rate for a long time (and still is). Women and men deserve equal respect, and how we refer to the Divine One is one place to make an improvement. I use 'S/He,' and am open to other suggestions. :)
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My Comment: What you say is another angle of looking at it, but as far as the Holy Quran is concerned, we believe the arabic text to be the authentic, untampered word of God. And, in it He has used the male tense to refer to Himself.
In fact, the grammar of the Quran is such that only the specifically female are referred to in the female gender, whereas when speaking generally or collectively, the male tense is employed to cover all. For example, when speaking of / to humans (an-naas), the plural male form is employed.
I feel its basically the grammatical construct of the language, and just to be accepted as is.
Just my two cents.
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Y commented: The problem with male bias is not limited to the Koran; it is also evident in the Torah, the Gospels, and other religions' holy texts. You don't believe that G-d is male do you? If you don't believe that All-h is male, then you ought to be motivated to do something about an obvious problem. If someone were disrespecting your mother, or sister, or wife, would you do nothing? I hope not. :)
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My Comment: Y, the analogy is, I feel, a bit far-fetched. God is nothing like we can ever imagine... we simply do not have the vision or capacity. How does one prove what God is when one is so clueless? When Allah tells me that He cannot be imagined or understood/comprehended by my mortal mind, how do I go about 'solving this obvious problem'?
To quote GS (and myself) again: [God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.]
As GS said, [Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding.]
May God guide us to focus upon and do the deeds that need to be done
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Y commented: I am glad that you agree that G-d is beyond gender. Holy texts ought to be rewritten to reflect this. And, we ought to change the words we use to reflect this as well. The male bias in referring to G-d has had real world consequences for women (second-class status). This is not trivial.
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My Comment: Y, I'm a woman, and I have no problem with that. God does not degrade or assign second class status to women, He's just created males and females differently to complement and complete each other, and as such the nature of responsibilities assigned are different. Whether the scripture reflects male or female bias or otherwise will have no bearing on how women are treated in society... the weak are oppressed and exploited, its the law of the jungle, and most people can't seem to rise above their base selves to actualize their true potential. If people start following the scripture, in letter and in spirit, these problems would vanish away.
If I may, I was just reading this passage, think it bears some significance to the discussion:
Holy Quran Chapter 4, Verses 116-126
116 Lo! Allah pardoneth not that partners should be ascribed unto Him. He pardoneth all save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah hath wandered far astray.
117 They invoke in His stead only females; they pray to none else than Satan, a rebel
118 Whom Allah cursed, and he said: Surely I will take of Thy bondmen an appointed portion,
119 And surely I will lead them astray, and surely I will arouse desires in them, and surely I will command them and they will cut the cattle' ears, and surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation. Whoso chooseth Satan for a patron instead of Allah is verily a loser and his loss is manifest.
120 He promiseth them and stirreth up desires in them, and Satan promiseth them only to beguile.
121 For such, their habitation will be hell, and they will find no refuge therefrom.
122 But as for those who believe and do good works We shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. It is a promise from Allah in truth; and who can be more truthful than Allah in utterance?
123 It will not be in accordance with your desires, nor the desires of the People of the Scripture. He who doeth wrong will have the recompense thereof, and will not find against Allah any protecting friend or helper.
124 And whoso doeth good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date-stone.
125 Who is better in religion than he who surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good (to men) and followeth the tradition of Abraham, the upright? Allah (Himself) chose Abraham for friend.
126 Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Allah ever surroundeth all things.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=4
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Y commented: Thank you Samiya for your thoughts. :)
I am glad that you are a woman. :) And I agree with you that G-d does not regard women as second class. G-d created women and men as equal partners, with different gifts.
When the weak are oppressed and exploited, a community is about to self-destruct. The strong must help the weak in order for a community to thrive.
Again I will state that holy texts should be rewritten to remove the male bias. The male bias does cause harm.
Namaste and Salaam and Shalom,
Usually I use male words to describe god when I'm feeling like a lazy typer because the male words tend to be shorter.
The only thing stranger to me than people presuming that god has a gender(more with the monotheist), is that people place such importance on it.
What difference does it make? He/she/it would have to be of sufficient intelligence to create a universe, therefore he/she/it should have some idea that humans are pretty stupid, and he/she/it probably has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so.
Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding. Why obsess over unimportant details? Enlightenment awaits.
My Comment: This is such a sensible mail... God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Y commented: G-d is 'him' in the scriptures and other holy texts because the feminine has been regarded as second-rate for a long time (and still is). Women and men deserve equal respect, and how we refer to the Divine One is one place to make an improvement. I use 'S/He,' and am open to other suggestions. :)
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My Comment: What you say is another angle of looking at it, but as far as the Holy Quran is concerned, we believe the arabic text to be the authentic, untampered word of God. And, in it He has used the male tense to refer to Himself.
In fact, the grammar of the Quran is such that only the specifically female are referred to in the female gender, whereas when speaking generally or collectively, the male tense is employed to cover all. For example, when speaking of / to humans (an-naas), the plural male form is employed.
I feel its basically the grammatical construct of the language, and just to be accepted as is.
Just my two cents.
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Y commented: The problem with male bias is not limited to the Koran; it is also evident in the Torah, the Gospels, and other religions' holy texts. You don't believe that G-d is male do you? If you don't believe that All-h is male, then you ought to be motivated to do something about an obvious problem. If someone were disrespecting your mother, or sister, or wife, would you do nothing? I hope not. :)
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My Comment: Y, the analogy is, I feel, a bit far-fetched. God is nothing like we can ever imagine... we simply do not have the vision or capacity. How does one prove what God is when one is so clueless? When Allah tells me that He cannot be imagined or understood/comprehended by my mortal mind, how do I go about 'solving this obvious problem'?
To quote GS (and myself) again: [God 'has the wisdom to not really get upset when creatures that cannot even come close to comprehending his/her/it's nature fail to do so' and 'Why obsess over unimportant details? ' Exactly! I agree, God is above and beyond all this gender stuff. The only reason we refer to Him as Him is because that's how it is in the scriptures.]
As GS said, [Perhaps, what one would be better served by focusing on what god/godess/gods/ godesses/ lack-thereof message is (and perhaps separating it from man made alterations) . I think that this would lead to greater unity, and understanding.]
May God guide us to focus upon and do the deeds that need to be done
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Y commented: I am glad that you agree that G-d is beyond gender. Holy texts ought to be rewritten to reflect this. And, we ought to change the words we use to reflect this as well. The male bias in referring to G-d has had real world consequences for women (second-class status). This is not trivial.
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My Comment: Y, I'm a woman, and I have no problem with that. God does not degrade or assign second class status to women, He's just created males and females differently to complement and complete each other, and as such the nature of responsibilities assigned are different. Whether the scripture reflects male or female bias or otherwise will have no bearing on how women are treated in society... the weak are oppressed and exploited, its the law of the jungle, and most people can't seem to rise above their base selves to actualize their true potential. If people start following the scripture, in letter and in spirit, these problems would vanish away.
If I may, I was just reading this passage, think it bears some significance to the discussion:
Holy Quran Chapter 4, Verses 116-126
116 Lo! Allah pardoneth not that partners should be ascribed unto Him. He pardoneth all save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah hath wandered far astray.
117 They invoke in His stead only females; they pray to none else than Satan, a rebel
118 Whom Allah cursed, and he said: Surely I will take of Thy bondmen an appointed portion,
119 And surely I will lead them astray, and surely I will arouse desires in them, and surely I will command them and they will cut the cattle' ears, and surely I will command them and they will change Allah's creation. Whoso chooseth Satan for a patron instead of Allah is verily a loser and his loss is manifest.
120 He promiseth them and stirreth up desires in them, and Satan promiseth them only to beguile.
121 For such, their habitation will be hell, and they will find no refuge therefrom.
122 But as for those who believe and do good works We shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. It is a promise from Allah in truth; and who can be more truthful than Allah in utterance?
123 It will not be in accordance with your desires, nor the desires of the People of the Scripture. He who doeth wrong will have the recompense thereof, and will not find against Allah any protecting friend or helper.
124 And whoso doeth good works, whether of male or female, and he (or she) is a believer, such will enter paradise and they will not be wronged the dint in a date-stone.
125 Who is better in religion than he who surrendereth his purpose to Allah while doing good (to men) and followeth the tradition of Abraham, the upright? Allah (Himself) chose Abraham for friend.
126 Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Allah ever surroundeth all things.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=4
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Y commented: Thank you Samiya for your thoughts. :)
I am glad that you are a woman. :) And I agree with you that G-d does not regard women as second class. G-d created women and men as equal partners, with different gifts.
When the weak are oppressed and exploited, a community is about to self-destruct. The strong must help the weak in order for a community to thrive.
Again I will state that holy texts should be rewritten to remove the male bias. The male bias does cause harm.
Namaste and Salaam and Shalom,
Moral Code
A Jew pointed out the following verse to somebody as an example of what he means when he says the Holy Quran is a good book.
Verse 2:195 says: 'And spend in the way of All-h and cast not your selves to perdition with your own hands, and do good (to others), for surely All-h loves the doers of good.'
To it, he got this response:
To me this quote is like a lot of ancient scriptural quotes, veritually useless or meaningless. What is Good? How does one know what is good and what is evil? Should we take of the tree of knowledge of good and evil so we can do good, even thought some scriptures say we should not do this?
This quote does point out that WE are the ones who cast OURSELVES into perdition. We are therefore the powerful ones here. In a sense this points out what many have realized: WE ARE GOD or All-h. Those who are not yet awake cannot accept this.
My Response: The moral code has been inbuilt in all humans. We instinctively know what's good and what's right, and what's bad and what's wrong. When we do good, we experience inner harmony and a sense of satisfaction, while when we do wrong, our conscience bothers us, creating internal dissonance. For further knowledge, read the Quran from begining till end. You will know what is good and what is evil.
A good english translation would be by Abdullah Yusuf Ali or Muhammad Pickthal. Both are available on www.searchtruth.com/list.php
If you have any questions regarding any verse, please do post. I'll be glad to help.
Verse 2:195 says: 'And spend in the way of All-h and cast not your selves to perdition with your own hands, and do good (to others), for surely All-h loves the doers of good.'
To it, he got this response:
To me this quote is like a lot of ancient scriptural quotes, veritually useless or meaningless. What is Good? How does one know what is good and what is evil? Should we take of the tree of knowledge of good and evil so we can do good, even thought some scriptures say we should not do this?
This quote does point out that WE are the ones who cast OURSELVES into perdition. We are therefore the powerful ones here. In a sense this points out what many have realized: WE ARE GOD or All-h. Those who are not yet awake cannot accept this.
My Response: The moral code has been inbuilt in all humans. We instinctively know what's good and what's right, and what's bad and what's wrong. When we do good, we experience inner harmony and a sense of satisfaction, while when we do wrong, our conscience bothers us, creating internal dissonance. For further knowledge, read the Quran from begining till end. You will know what is good and what is evil.
A good english translation would be by Abdullah Yusuf Ali or Muhammad Pickthal. Both are available on www.searchtruth.com/list.php
If you have any questions regarding any verse, please do post. I'll be glad to help.
The Holy Quran 2:2
Question: Sura #2:2 reads "This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah." (I hope I annotated that correctly.)
The bible also talks about fearing God. Yet the bible has more advanced teachings beyond that that teach to love God and that love drives out fear, demonstrating that one cannot both love and fear the same thing, and that love is stronger, more powerful and healthier.
So does the Koran also teach that there are better things than to fear Allah? Does it have any higher level teachings or is it just for beginners?
If it does have higher level teachings where are they? I have never been able to find any nor have I been able to find anyone who knows of any.
Answer: This is the trouble with translations. The word that's translated as fear, lil-muttaqeen, is actually a much broader term which can be more accurately translated as 'for the God-aware'. God-awareness encompasses much more, it is a state of consciousness where one acknowledges the presence and awareness of the Creator and Sustainer at all times, loving Him and fearing Him at the same time, and living a life seeking His pleasure. Compare the following translations:
Transliteration 2: Thalika alkitabu la rayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeena
Yusuf Ali 2: This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
Shakir 2: This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
Pickthal 2: This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
Mohsin Khan: 2: This is the Book (the Qur'an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious believers of Islamic Monotheism who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2
The subsequent verses further define who God-aware people are:
2 This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
3 Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;
4 And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter.
5 These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=2&translator=4
Will insh'Allah post select verses of the good from the Quran later.
You asked: Does it [the Holy Quran] have any higher level teachings or is it just for beginners?
Answer: Quran offers guidance for all. It is a beginner's guide and an advanced course, all put together. There are many shades of meanings to the verses, and every re-read teaches one something new. And the best part, each meaning builds upon or enhances the previous understanding.
To the beginner, it may appear as a simple book. Well, good for the beginner. Its easy to start with something simple.
As you progress, and re-read, you find that there is so much more to it, it just never ceases to amaze you!
Here are a few verses listing good deeds:
The Holy Quran, Chapter 17, Verses 23-37
23 Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, and (that ye show) kindness to parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age with thee, say not "Fie" unto them nor repulse them, but speak unto them a gracious word.
24 And lower unto them the wing of submission through mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy on them both as they did care for me when I was little.
25 Your Lord is Best Aware of what is in your minds. If ye are righteous, then lo! He was ever Forgiving unto those who turn (unto Him).
26 Give the kinsman his due, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and squander not (thy wealth) in wantonness.
27 Lo! the squanderers were ever brothers of the devils, and the devil was ever an ingrate to his Lord.
28 But if thou turn away from them, seeking mercy from thy Lord, for which thou hopest, then speak unto them a reasonable word.
29 And let not thy hand be chained to thy neck nor open it with a complete opening, lest thou sit down rebuked, denuded.
30 Lo! thy Lord enlargeth the provision for whom He will, and straiteneth (it for whom He will). Lo, He was ever Knower, Seer of His slaves.
31 Slay not your children, fearing a fall to poverty, We shall provide for them and for you. Lo! the slaying of them is great sin.
32 And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.
33 And slay not the life which Allah hath forbidden save with right. Whoso is slain wrongfully, We have given power unto his heir, but let him not commit excess in slaying. Lo! he will be helped.
34 Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength; and keep the covenant. Lo! of the covenant it will be asked.
35 Fill the measure when ye measure, and weigh with a right balance; that is meet, and better in the end.
36 (O man), follow not that whereof thou hast no knowledge. Lo! the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these it will be asked.
37 And walk not in the earth exultant. Lo! thou canst not rend the earth, nor canst thou stretch to the height of the hills.
The bible also talks about fearing God. Yet the bible has more advanced teachings beyond that that teach to love God and that love drives out fear, demonstrating that one cannot both love and fear the same thing, and that love is stronger, more powerful and healthier.
So does the Koran also teach that there are better things than to fear Allah? Does it have any higher level teachings or is it just for beginners?
If it does have higher level teachings where are they? I have never been able to find any nor have I been able to find anyone who knows of any.
Answer: This is the trouble with translations. The word that's translated as fear, lil-muttaqeen, is actually a much broader term which can be more accurately translated as 'for the God-aware'. God-awareness encompasses much more, it is a state of consciousness where one acknowledges the presence and awareness of the Creator and Sustainer at all times, loving Him and fearing Him at the same time, and living a life seeking His pleasure. Compare the following translations:
Transliteration 2: Thalika alkitabu la rayba feehi hudan lilmuttaqeena
Yusuf Ali 2: This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
Shakir 2: This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
Pickthal 2: This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
Mohsin Khan: 2: This is the Book (the Qur'an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious believers of Islamic Monotheism who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2
The subsequent verses further define who God-aware people are:
2 This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
3 Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;
4 And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter.
5 These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.
http://searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=2&translator=4
Will insh'Allah post select verses of the good from the Quran later.
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J, further to our previous exchange, please note that fear of God also means fear of the consequences of our bad deeds.
Also, if there is no God, what drives you to do good, especially when doing good may not appear to be in your best interest?
Also, if there is no God, what drives you to do good, especially when doing good may not appear to be in your best interest?
You asked: Does it [the Holy Quran] have any higher level teachings or is it just for beginners?
Answer: Quran offers guidance for all. It is a beginner's guide and an advanced course, all put together. There are many shades of meanings to the verses, and every re-read teaches one something new. And the best part, each meaning builds upon or enhances the previous understanding.
To the beginner, it may appear as a simple book. Well, good for the beginner. Its easy to start with something simple.
As you progress, and re-read, you find that there is so much more to it, it just never ceases to amaze you!
Here are a few verses listing good deeds:
The Holy Quran, Chapter 17, Verses 23-37
23 Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, and (that ye show) kindness to parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age with thee, say not "Fie" unto them nor repulse them, but speak unto them a gracious word.
24 And lower unto them the wing of submission through mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy on them both as they did care for me when I was little.
25 Your Lord is Best Aware of what is in your minds. If ye are righteous, then lo! He was ever Forgiving unto those who turn (unto Him).
26 Give the kinsman his due, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and squander not (thy wealth) in wantonness.
27 Lo! the squanderers were ever brothers of the devils, and the devil was ever an ingrate to his Lord.
28 But if thou turn away from them, seeking mercy from thy Lord, for which thou hopest, then speak unto them a reasonable word.
29 And let not thy hand be chained to thy neck nor open it with a complete opening, lest thou sit down rebuked, denuded.
30 Lo! thy Lord enlargeth the provision for whom He will, and straiteneth (it for whom He will). Lo, He was ever Knower, Seer of His slaves.
31 Slay not your children, fearing a fall to poverty, We shall provide for them and for you. Lo! the slaying of them is great sin.
32 And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.
33 And slay not the life which Allah hath forbidden save with right. Whoso is slain wrongfully, We have given power unto his heir, but let him not commit excess in slaying. Lo! he will be helped.
34 Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength; and keep the covenant. Lo! of the covenant it will be asked.
35 Fill the measure when ye measure, and weigh with a right balance; that is meet, and better in the end.
36 (O man), follow not that whereof thou hast no knowledge. Lo! the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these it will be asked.
37 And walk not in the earth exultant. Lo! thou canst not rend the earth, nor canst thou stretch to the height of the hills.
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